Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[muse]

More F16? -- I think any Pakistani official found making weapons deals with US will be hanging from a lamp post in no time.

 

[TOPGUN]

More F16? -- I think any Pakistani official found making weapons deals with US will be hanging from a lamp post in no time.

I agree but i wonder will they now give us back the last viper blk 52 left with them for futher testing rem we only got 17 out of the 18.

 

[Najam Khan]

I agree but i wonder will they now give us back the last viper blk 52 left with them for futher testing rem we only got 17 out of the 18.

No, if you are talking about the 1st batch a/c which remained at SA due to some technical problem, it joined others within a week. All 18 are operational at Jacobabad.

 

[MAJOR-ALI]

how many pak army have f16 in service (active) ??

 

[farhan_9909]

i think f-16 is the biggest mistake PAK made to purchase

mig 29 or mirage 2000 was the best option

 

[Najam Khan]

i think f-16 is the biggest mistake PAK made to purchase

mig 29 or mirage 2000 was the best option

You need to go back and check the time line and situation of region when we get F16s. Soviets/Afghans were crossing our borders on routine basis...and PAF has no solution to it...F6 were inferior to Mig23s and Mig21s, Mirages lack in air combat. F5s and F20 were offered but their operational date was not what PAF wanted.

 

[MJaa]

Pakistan's F-16 Program at Risk of Failure?: Wikileaks


Classified By: Anne W. Patterson

SUMMARY: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has approached the U.S. with a request to use Foreign Military Financing (FMF) to help pay for Mid-Life Updates (MLU) on its existing fleet of F-16 fighter aircraft. This request would require the modification of the original Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) that sanctioned the deal and notification to Congress of the change.

The MLU case is but one of three major cases that constitute the bulk of the over $3 billion F-16 sale. Failure of the F-16 program would have serious long-term consequences for Pak-US bilateral relationship.

Click here to Read More

 

[MJaa]

i think f-16 is the biggest mistake PAK made to purchase

mig 29 or mirage 2000 was the best option

Mig-29 wasn't available and not a true multi-role aircraft

Mirage-2000 was outdated and Mirage-2000-5 was way to expensive

 

[humza_313]

There is no doubt that f.16s were the best and reasonable choice available. Initially u.s was offering f.4s ..... As for the mirage program, the french gov didnt want to sell the ful package. The deal fell with the fal of government in mid 90s...

 

[humza_313]

Also lets not forget that in the 80s the u.s also offered f.5 tigers. Pak was the 2nd country to purchase f.16s after israeil. They helped retaliate the soviet forces in the 80s and the israiel from sabotaging the nuclear program(thats another long topic though)...

 

[Najam Khan]

Pakistan's F-16 Program at Risk of Failure?: Wikileaks


Classified By: Anne W. Patterson

SUMMARY: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has approached the U.S. with a request to use Foreign Military Financing (FMF) to help pay for Mid-Life Updates (MLU) on its existing fleet of F-16 fighter aircraft. This request would require the modification of the original Letter of Offer and Acceptance (LOA) that sanctioned the deal and notification to Congress of the change.

The MLU case is but one of three major cases that constitute the bulk of the over $3 billion F-16 sale. Failure of the F-16 program would have serious long-term consequences for Pak-US bilateral relationship.

Click here to Read More

Whats the date/time line when she wrote this cable? She was in Pakistan from July 2007 and October 2010.
Since two of our F16s are in Turkey for MLU since last Oct, i presume her concerns didn't proved true. MLU program is going as planned. Even after OBL episode, PAF will never think of stepping back.

 

[Windjammer]

Also lets not forget that in the 80s the u.s also offered f.5 tigers. Pak was the 2nd country to purchase f.16s after israeil. They helped retaliate the soviet forces in the 80s and the israiel from sabotaging the nuclear program(thats another long topic though)...

It was actually F-20 Tiger Shark for which, US was hoping Pakistan would become a launch customer.
Before Pakistan some half a dozen NATO Countries had inducted the F-16, the initial batch for the PAF was in fact diverted from European assembly lines to speed up the delivery.

 

[MJaa]

Whats the date/time line when she wrote this cable? She was in Pakistan from July 2007 and October 2010.
Since two of our F16s are in Turkey for MLU since last Oct, i presume her concerns didn't proved true. MLU program is going as planned. Even after OBL episode, PAF will never think of stepping back.

You are right, I seems that US did followed her idea and allowed the use of US funding for MLU

 

[MilSpec]

US cables expose Pak F-16s 'image' problem

The F-16 fighter aircraft, which America sold to the Pakistan Air Force, and recently tried to sell to India, has been a relationship spoiler all round.

Pakistan complains that American sanctions held back many F-16s that had already been paid for. India complains that Pakistan will use the F-16s against India, not terrorists. And America is upset that India hasn't bought F-16s.

WikiLeaks cables accessed exclusively by NDTV reveal how the the F-16 assumed mythical proportions in the Pakistan public mind making it a very big deal in that country. They also reveal how Pakistan has always known that they will not really help it match India's air combat prowess and how India is not really worried about it's the F-16's fighting capabilities. (WikiLeaks - Pak wants better terms for buying F-16s)

Several cables exchanged between the US embassy in Islamabad and Washington illustrate how large the F-16 looms in the minds of Pakistanis. US diplomats write that, "The Pakistani Air Force (PAF) is obsessed with F-16s" and the fighters have "an inflated symbolic importance in the public imagination". (Read: WikiLeaks - Pak signs F-16 Letters of Offer and Acceptance)
Cables also note that the Pakistani Air Force tacitly admits that the Pakistan Air Force is no match for the Indian Air Force's resources. The PAF's operations chief, Air Vice Marshal Khalid Chaudhry, was quoted in a cable of March 2006 as telling a visiting Pentagon official John Hillen that, "The PAF has no hope of matching the IAF's resources... the math just doesn't add up". Even the proposed purchase of 20 F-16s would not make a difference, Chaudhry reportedly said.

The Pakistan Air Marshal was also quoted as saying drily that the Pakistani public must be "convinced that they're getting a great aircraft... even if there's no money to pay for them. Chaudhry told Hillen to "ensure the F-16 deal has enough sweeteners to appeal to the public... (such as smart bombs and night vision)... but not to offer the PAF things it cannot afford." (Read: WikiLeaks - Pakistan threatens top stop F-16 payments) | (Read: WikiLeaks - Request for specific changes in F-16 security notes)

Across the border, for India too, the F-16 has been seen more as political weapon, not a military one of great worth. Then Indian Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran is quoted in cable as telling visiting US Under Secretary Nick Burns as much. That India's concern about the US sale of F-16s to Pakistan was not about the fighters' military impact, since the Indian Air Force would remain much more powerful. But, Saran said, this sale by America might "cause political problems for India's coalition government."

Nick Burns noted that he saw an opportunity to push through the sale to Pakistan. (Read: WikiLeaks - US reassurances to Pakistan on the F-16 sale) His cable noted that New Delhi was okay with F-16s being sold to Pakistan..."the problem is merely one of managing Indian public opinion."


Read more at: US cables expose Pak F-16s 'image' problem

 

[alimobin memon]

the deal is good our force is not dumb something is fishy fishy !! we r buying more f16 because i think the threat is from india that is why!!. some agents have intel of that !! and U.S is supporting but remains hidden !!!