Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Ali_Baba]

It did a lot and did indeed achieve its full potential for what it has been provided with. The country is safer because of its presence in the region.

1 - The original business case for the F16s was about 110 fighters and the infrastructure was setup to support that many - but PAF is now stuck at a little over 70 odd. So - alot of wasted time/effort/money in infrastructure to support a larger fleet than what PAF has ..
2 - The F16s spent a large portion of their life under sanctions with limited spare parts supplies which comprimised their actual military value during those sanctions. Parts were begged/borrowed and Kaiser has been clear in his commentary of the 2001 standoff with India, there wasn't enough spare parts to keep up the temp of operations.
3 - They just about got a MLU upgrade to take them to Block 50 standards when the 18 Block 52's were bought.
4 - There is no possibility of upgrading to V standard/AESA radars for the last 1/3 of their life.
5 - The Block 52+ were never allowed to be sold with DRFM jamming.
6 - No AIM-9X were sold - even though they got the Helmet that would have allowed them to be used.
7 - No real possibility of purchasing new F16s ..
8 - No possibility of even 2nd hard F16s to get to the original number of 110 that PAF planned.

I am sure others on this forum can highlight more reasons than what i have listed above... but it should give you a taste of why I dont think the F16 platform has been "allowed to achieve its full potential.".

Yes - the country is safer with the current fleet than not having it - but that is different to saying the acquisition of the F16s have fullfiled the original plans the PAF had and then allowed the full potential of what the platform should have been able to offer had it kept pace with the growth of the platform else where interms of capbility growth and upgrades.

The F16 fleet in the PAF will now wither away, decay and die prematurely as it will not be "allowed" to keep pace with the overall developments and enhancements of the F16 platform being made by the manufacturer.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Nope..i doubt pakistan will even be allowed to get bullet proof helmets ..cost is not practical

USA will offer new ones but not used ones
New ones have operational poltical limitations and will cost twice that of j10 with just aim9
Or at best aim120c5
So in their right mind will get it

New one not affordable until we got military support fund, we already have Aim120c5 or it will only add advantage if we can get hand on Aim12OD or atleast aim120c7

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

New one not affordable until we got military support fund, we already have Aim120c5 or it will only add advantage if we can get hand on Aim12OD or atleast aim120c7

Owing to current global political scenario. I forsee one or two squadrons of f16s coming our way. Of course , eda, by the end of this year 2022.
May be wrong, but certainly wishful.

 

[ziaulislam]

New one not affordable until we got military support fund, we already have Aim120c5 or it will only add advantage if we can get hand on Aim12OD or atleast aim120c7

2007 bush was desparate to end afghan war
We dont have any such leverage

 

[araz]

1 - The original business case for the F16s was about 110 fighters and the infrastructure was setup to support that many - but PAF is now stuck at a little over 70 odd. So - alot of wasted time/effort/money in infrastructure to support a larger fleet than what PAF has ..
2 - The F16s spent a large portion of their life under sanctions with limited spare parts supplies which comprimised their actual military value during those sanctions. Parts were begged/borrowed and Kaiser has been clear in his commentary of the 2001 standoff with India, there wasn't enough spare parts to keep up the temp of operations.
3 - They just about got a MLU upgrade to take them to Block 50 standards when the 18 Block 52's were bought.
4 - There is no possibility of upgrading to V standard/AESA radars for the last 1/3 of their life.
5 - The Block 52+ were never allowed to be sold with DRFM jamming.
6 - No AIM-9X were sold - even though they got the Helmet that would have allowed them to be used.
7 - No real possibility of purchasing new F16s ..
8 - No possibility of even 2nd hard F16s to get to the original number of 110 that PAF planned.

I am sure others on this forum can highlight more reasons than what i have listed above... but it should give you a taste of why I dont think the F16 platform has been "allowed to achieve its full potential.".

Yes - the country is safer with the current fleet than not having it - but that is different to saying the acquisition of the F16s have fullfiled the original plans the PAF had and then allowed the full potential of what the platform should have been able to offer had it kept pace with the growth of the platform else where interms of capbility growth and upgrades.

The F16 fleet in the PAF will now wither away, decay and die prematurely as it will not be "allowed" to keep pace with the overall developments and enhancements of the F16 platform being made by the manufacturer.

PAF will never allow the 16s to wither away and die prematurely. It has enough spares to keep them in very good shape . It will also continue to get spares for the current fleet for the forseeable future. Relations with the US might not be as good as they were but we are still no where near the trough that we saw in the 90s. From the US perspective, I think their assessment will be that sanctions now will have no advantageous role for extension of US policy objectives and would actually be detrimental and not achieve anything. In a war between Indo Pak they will put sanctions on both countries as per UN rules but otherwise things will go on as such. I think PAF will not be offered older platforms unless they do US's policy bidding which they will not do.
So this remains the CURRENT situation. However in Pakistan's history nothing is permanent and it just needs a change for the establishment to go back on its earlier decisions.
A

New one not affordable until we got military support fund, we already have Aim120c5 or it will only add advantage if we can get hand on Aim12OD or atleast aim120c7

It is not that they are not affordable. It is US unwillingness to provide them and PAF will not post funds for something that could be sanction prone. PAF will in principle only get them if the CSF is released. I dont think the US will do so.
A

 

[tphuang]

5 - The Block 52+ were never allowed to be sold with DRFM jamming.
6 - No AIM-9X were sold - even though they got the Helmet that would have allowed them to be used.

Wait PAF F-16s don't even have DRFM jamming or AIM-9X and people here are eager for more of them? DRFM was high level of technology back in 2000s. It's not something you want to use against modern AESA radar aircraft anymore. No wonder PAF realized them needed J-10C. That level of technology is just not competitive right now. Read here on why DRFM is not considered to be modern anymore https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...eaknesses-endure-while-other-nations-innovate
Keep in mind that Su-35S uses this technology and it's completely ineffective against J-16/J-10C in PLAAF DACT. If F-16 doesn't have that, it's EW suite really is pretty old.

I mean sure, it can probably jam up Mig-29s, Su-30MKIs, but that's like 90s and 2000s Russian technology. Even block 2 JF-17s can probably jam those up. But if the PAF F-16s use late 90s US avionics technology along with older AIM-120/AIM-9 missiles, I don't get why people are still so hung up on them. Even IAF will eventually get some advanced new aircraft that would vastly overmatch these F-16s

And if you are still waiting on F-16Vs, you might want to watch this

That's from a DC insider looking at Pakistan. America will remember Pakistan siding with the Russians for a long time.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Owing to current global political scenario. I forsee one or two squadrons of f16s coming our way. Of course , eda, by the end of this year 2022.
May be wrong, but certainly wishful.

Lets see all revolves around American interest in Afghanistan and Pakistan role and involvement in it

2007 bush was desparate to end afghan war
We dont have any such leverage

Agian if American want to to be in Afghanistan via Pakistan

 

[truthseeker2010]

it just needs a change for the establishment to go 360 on its earlier decisions.

180

 

[Scorpiooo]

It is not that they are not affordable. It is US unwillingness to provide them and PAF will not post funds for something that could be sanction prone. PAF will in principle only get them if the CSF is released. I dont think the US will do so.
A

Yes PAF is waiting for CSF release for F16 and helos from years, sanctions in case of American will always on card

 

[araz]

180

Thank you. Too much kaddoo for lunch$%@×+. Made appropriate changes
A

 

[truthseeker2010]

Thank you. Too much kaddoo for lunch$%@×+. Made appropriate changes

You missed your signature!
A

 

[TsAr]

A Viper driver escorting a former Viper driver back into Pak airspace

Probably asking him for a drag race

 

[WiderMan]

1 - The original business case for the F16s was about 110 fighters and the infrastructure was setup to support that many - but PAF is now stuck at a little over 70 odd. So - alot of wasted time/effort/money in infrastructure to support a larger fleet than what PAF has ..
2 - The F16s spent a large portion of their life under sanctions with limited spare parts supplies which comprimised their actual military value during those sanctions. Parts were begged/borrowed and Kaiser has been clear in his commentary of the 2001 standoff with India, there wasn't enough spare parts to keep up the temp of operations.
3 - They just about got a MLU upgrade to take them to Block 50 standards when the 18 Block 52's were bought.
4 - There is no possibility of upgrading to V standard/AESA radars for the last 1/3 of their life.
5 - The Block 52+ were never allowed to be sold with DRFM jamming.
6 - No AIM-9X were sold - even though they got the Helmet that would have allowed them to be used.
7 - No real possibility of purchasing new F16s ..
8 - No possibility of even 2nd hard F16s to get to the original number of 110 that PAF planned.

I am sure others on this forum can highlight more reasons than what i have listed above... but it should give you a taste of why I dont think the F16 platform has been "allowed to achieve its full potential.".

Yes - the country is safer with the current fleet than not having it - but that is different to saying the acquisition of the F16s have fullfiled the original plans the PAF had and then allowed the full potential of what the platform should have been able to offer had it kept pace with the growth of the platform else where interms of capbility growth and upgrades.

The F16 fleet in the PAF will now wither away, decay and die prematurely as it will not be "allowed" to keep pace with the overall developments and enhancements of the F16 platform being made by the manufacturer.

Most of your information is incorrect. The Block 52s do in fact have DRFM enabled SPJs. There's also a strong possibility for another fleet upgrade.

 

[Zibago]

J10 just inducted in ground attack role will take few year for actual operationalize and training,

The PL-15 is a beast which will make it not a question of if but when

PL-15E: China's jet fighters just got more deadly - Asia Times

Speaker after speaker at the recent 2021 Air, Space & Cyber Conference, expressed the same urgency -- a desire to accelerate modernization to deter

asiatimes.com

If US really was concerned about losing its influence on our defence sector it couldve allowed sale of Turkish helicopters and offered us something better than the Type 54 but it didnt

 

[araz]

You missed your signature!
A

As requested Sir!!!