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Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

From oiganal report per Mr khattak

“The case for the purchase of F-16s from the US is closed, we are now going for a third party transfer of F-16s and have an offer from Jordan,” Khattak said on Monday. Jordan offered Pakistan 16 used F-16 Block-30 fighter aircraft, an older F-16 version than the variants originally offered by the United States

Yes the 8 number is pulled out of thin air or perhaps the number of new block 52 were 8 causing confusion but jordanain deal can be for all of them .

Remaining life current number of hours on the frame vs current max 8k, keep in mind total life of f7p and pg is 2400-2800 hours , f6 had 600x3 =1800 hours, mirage has 1800x2 or 3 = 3600 hours, jf has around 4k but may be extended later on

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We also have Non NATO Ally status so eligible for EDA route for surplus/stored USAF F-16. It would not require notification to Congress we only need presidential approval IIRC.

Yes but the funds to upgrade are usually subsidised by FMS/FMF, very rarely we use our own funds.
 
btw if I am not mistaken (plz correct me if I am wrong) officially the designed life of F-16 fuselage is 8,000 flying hours though it can stand upto 10,000 -12,000 flying hours
Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

The original USAF requirement was 4,000 hours at a structural stress factor limit of 7.33g. General Dynamics showed that they could design for 6,000 hours at 9.0g limit while meeting all weight and performance goals.

The original A model was later found to not be able to actually meet this life-span even under normal peace-time operating conditions but subsequent models were easily re-designed to be able to reach the target.

Mid-Life-Updates applied to Block 15 and above models also go through Structural Life Enhancement Processes and have the fuselage strengthened and patches applied as can be seen below:

F-16 SLEP Reinforcements.jpg


The resulting aircraft can be flown to 8,000 hours under normal conditions. Please note that total cycles (takeoff to landing) and the number of times the airframe is taken to its limits are also important and excessive cycles and g-limit excursions will shorten the time between overhauls and eventual achievable lifespan for an airframe. Hence, combat flown- (or air combat training dedicated-) aircraft wear out quicker.

The F-15E was more sturdily designed to be able to handle heavy loads of up to about 81,000 pounds takeoff weights and be able to deliver heavier warloads at all altitudes than the original F-15A/C and F-16 models. There is talk of having them realistically reach 16,000 or 18,000 hours eventual lifespans with SLEP-like programs. The F-15Cs that are in better condition are also being lined up to be rebuilt (new fuselage cells and wing-boxes) to F-15E standards and can be taken up to 24,000 hours eventual life-spans (including what they have spent with their original airframes).
 
At least we can try and we may get them if we have effective lobbying and strong diplomacy.

Trying is one thing which we can try , however its very unlikely I hate to say lets see what happens.
 
DID I READ THIS CORRECT

14 Jordanian used F16 for $75 million in total,

That is ridiculous price of $5 million per plane.

either those planes are battered junk OR the Jordanians are losing the plot

The QATARIS want $35 million each for their used Mirage2000/9 when they finally receive their rafales.

A contemporary modern F16/52 brand new has a unit price of $70 million each

PAF are going to 15 for the same price ( yes I know they are nearly 25 years old)

STILL A BARGIN IMO



Current F16 of Jordan being eyed by Pakistan

img_2470-copyx1024.jpg
Qatar operates Mirage 2000-5...UAE operates the Mirage 2000-9. Just to avoid any confusion sir.
 
Bismillah ir Rahman ar Raheem

From the article 'LEAN BUT MEAN' (text only, not images), a report on Royal Danish Air Force F-16s in the January 2017 issue of Combat Aircraft (answers some questions raised previously about PAF F-16s in this thread):

"...Since the first delivery in 1980, the RDAF’s F-16s have been through various update programs, bringing new features and capabilities to the fleet, as well as extending airframe service lives.

RDAF F-16.jpg


The most significant of these F-16 upgrades is the well-documented mid-life update (MLU) program that the RDAF joined when the initial planning stages began in 1989. In total, the RDAF upgraded 48 single-seat F-16As and 13 two-seat F-16Bs. All were modified at the main F-16 depot at Aalborg air base in northern Jutland. Most RDAF F-16s remaining in service have been upgraded to the MLU 6.5 tape standard; the exceptions are the seven remaining Block 10 airframes, which have only been upgraded to MLU 4.3 tape. Since they are Block 10s, these aircraft lack the strengthened nosewheel construction and are unable to carry a targeting pod or fire the AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missile. They are only used for training and as quick reaction alert (QRA) aircraft but not for international missions.

P&W F-100-220E.jpg


In 1986, many other European users of the F-16 replaced the aircraft’s Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-200 engine with the modernized F100-PW-220E version. However, the Danish government decided not to join this engine initiative. With the drawn-out process to select the F-16’s replacement, it soon became clear that the original units would not be able to see the jets through to their out-of-service date. As a result, in 2013 the RDAF purchased 50 used F100-PW-220E powerplants. These are being fitted to the RDAF F-16 fleet to keep the aircraft flying until their planned out-of-service date in 2024.

The commanding officer of 730 Fighter Squadron, call sign ‘STI’, said of the upgraded engines: ‘The main advantages of the new Dash 220E engines include more rapid thrust during take-off, which means the aircraft gets airborne quicker, leaving more runway in case of an emergency. The engine also performs better in the air, which improves its effectiveness during air-to-air combat.’

With the F-16’s replacement not expected to reach full operational capability (FOC) until 2027, the RDAF Fighting Falcons are undergoing a structural life enhancement program, which aims to keep them flying until at least 2024.

F-16 SQUADRONS
The RDAF now has two F-16 squadrons, 727 Fighter Squadron and 730 Fighter Squadron (offcially renamed as such from Eskadrille 727 and Eskadrille 730 in January 2005), both based at Fighter Wing Skrydstrup. No F-16s are assigned to either unit. All the aircraft are pooled together at the Aircraft Maintenance Squadron and jets are assigned to each fighter squadron on an ‘as needed’ basis.

RDAF QRA F-16.jpg


The main day-to-day mission of the Danish F-16s is the 24-hour QRA maintained at Skrydstrup. Two F-16s are kept on constant QRA readiness, with two more providing immediate back-up. The four aircraft are kept in a specially constructed building close to the crew quarters. The jets are fully fuelled, checked out and can be airborne within minutes of the alarm sounding. They are armed with two AIM-9L Sidewinders and a full drum of 20mm ammunition for the gun, while a centerline fuel tank is carried. Two pilots and two ground crew are on 12.5-hour rotations in a building close to the QRA shelters. In addition to the two main and two back-up jets, two to three airframes are on stand-by, in case any of the four jets has a malfunction that cannot be fixed. This is to avoid situations in which, for example, one of the four primary aircraft breaks down on a Friday afternoon, leaving one of the QRA jets without a spare airframe for the weekend. These stand-by jets are armed too, and can be ready for flight at short notice.

RDAF QRA F-16 02.jpg


Apart from maintaining the 24-hour QRA, the two F-16 squadrons have to keep pilots current and well-trained. On a normal day two missions are flown, one in the morning and one in the afternoon, usually consisting of eight aircraft each. In times when aircraft are deployed
on international commitments, or on exercises, the number of airframes per sortie is reduced.

...ARCTIC FALCONS
For many years the RDAF has mounted patrols over Greenland using a combination of CL-604 Challengers and C-130J-30 Hercules from Eskadrille 721. In 2015 the decision was made to test the F-16 and its sensor suite over Greenland and to gain knowledge about operating fighters over the Arctic. RDAF F-16s had previously made fuel stops at Greenland’s Kangerlussuaq (Sønder Strømfjord) while deploying to the United States, but this was the first time missions would actually be flown over the territory.

RDAF F-16s Greenland.jpg


On August 5, 2015 three F-16s left Skrydstrup bound for Kangerlussuaq. They were accompanied by a CL-604 and a C-130J-30 carrying spare parts and ground crews. To help deal with the long distances involved, the RDAF borrowed two sets of 600-gallon drop tanks from the Portuguese Air Force. The two primary jets used the 600-gallon tanks, while the third, a back-up aircraft, flew to Greenland with the normal 370-gallon drop tanks. During their mission, the two primary jets touched down at Thule Air Base, the first ever landing at this location by an F-16
coming almost 40 years after a single-seat fighter had last landed at the base. Having successfully completed a number of sorties over large parts of Greenland, the three F-16s returned to Denmark on August 7, 2015.

RDAF F-16s Greenland 02.jpg


...FUTURE FIGHTER
...The decision to purchase 27 F-35s was met with criticism and skepticism from some observers, both nationally and internationally. In its reasoning for replacing 44 F-16s with just 27 F-35s, the Danish government is, among other things, expecting each airframe to be
able to fly a minimum of 250 hours per year, compared with the 165 flight hours that the F-16s fly now. During years when the F-35s are deployed on international missions, the government anticipates being able to fly 290 hours per airframe. The 250 hours in a ‘normal’ year is in
stark contrast to the annual 167.7 flight hours that the Norwegian government is forecasting for each aircraft in its F-35 fleet. Indeed, no other F-35 user in the world predicts that its aircraft will be able to fly 250 hours a year.

...It is not only the high number of flying hours and comparatively low unit costs used in the selection process which have raised concerns. The Danish government has undertaken its calculations based on radical changes in pilot working conditions. These include increasing weekly working hours from 37 hours (the standard Danish working week) to 48 hours. This opens up the possibility of a two-to-one deployment versus home time, meaning that pilots can be deployed for twice as long as they get to stay home before being deployed again. Furthermore, the service time for pilots might be increased from 8.5 years to 17 years to cut down on the need to train new pilots. It remains to be seen how the pilots’ union will react if these changes are implemented.

...'VIPER' REPLACEMENT
...The F-16 fleet is to be phased out between 2020 and 2024. This is expected to leave a gap of two years, from 2022 to 2024, during which the RDAF will be unable to participate in international fighter operations prior to FOC for the F-35, which is expected in 2027. It remains to be seen if the planned schedule is achievable. In the meantime, it will be left to the F-16 to hold the line.
 
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