Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[truthseeker2010]

why not go for more used f-16 to replace aging mirage and f-7 on fast track, a 100 more vipers should not cost more than a billion since 75 were for 13, i am sure paf will have this much funds in next 2-3 years, meanwhile jf-17 production should continue on a normal run for next two years, squadron a year, this will give a much needed boost, I think F-16 is still a superior machine than JF-17 handsdown.

 

[Donatello]

why not go for more used f-16 to replace aging mirage and f-7 on fast track, a 100 more vipers should not cost more than a billion since 75 were for 13, i am sure paf will have this much funds in next 2-3 years, meanwhile jf-17 production should continue on a normal run for next two years, squadron a year, this will give a much needed boost, I think F-16 is still a superior machine than JF-17 handsdown.

100 more such vipers are not available. You tell, where would they come from?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

They gave 13 if I'm right.

No that would be on top of the 18 C/D as we purchased them at new "currency valuation"

Pakistani Money was very strong back then .... so the $$ that bough tus 70 F16 in 1990s would have bought us 150 F16 of same type and class

So the loss cannot be compared

1990s we lost 70 F16 Deal , which was paid for by Pakistan

2010 We got 18 Block c/d planes at higher price & lower numbers
13 Old Jordanian planes, were some what reasonable price but even so , 70 vs 13 big difference


We really are owed almost 50 planes at reduced rates deal (F16 or F15 or Hornets)

A true , and appropriate resolution should have been our 70 F16 deal was scrapped so we should have received same number of planes at reduced rates

1) Will keep F16 production facility working for another 10 years
2) We will finally close the chapter of loses to Airforce due to F16

 

[truthseeker2010]

100 more such vipers are not available. You tell, where would they come from?

belgium, dutch, norwegian, venezuela, danish, portugese some of them are going for f-35, so will be phasing them out. There is also excess inventory at AMARG, also our 28 that were embargoed and stored AMARG are also with europeans as excess inventory.

 

[IrbiS]

No that would be on top of the 18 C/D as we purchased them at new "currency valuation"

Pakistani Money was very strong back then .... so the $$ that bough tus 70 F16 in 1990s would have bought us 150 F16 of same type and class

So the loss cannot be compared

1990s we lost 70 F16 Deal , which was paid for by Pakistan

2010 We got 18 Block c/d planes at higher price & lower numbers
13 Old Jordanian planes, were some what reasonable price but even so , 70 vs 13 big difference


We really are owed almost 50 planes at reduced rates deal (F16 or F15 or Hornets)

A true , and appropriate resolution should have been our 70 F16 deal was scrapped so we should have received same number of planes at reduced rates

1) Will keep F16 production facility working for another 10 years
2) We will finally close the chapter of loses to Airforce due to F16

We got 40 from 1st order, 9 were lost in crashes till 2009's last crash. This leaves 31+13 from Jordan and 18 new 52+, this makes the count 62. But our current number is 76. Where the difference come from? It the 14 jet Block 15OCUs Which we received b/w 2005-2008. If I remember correctly 1st 1 or 2 were ferried to Pakistan by U.S pilots.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well forget the planes we got in 80's (Those numbers are not in question those were clean deals)

I am talking about the shipment in 90's that was cancelled after it was fully paid

After that saga , we only received hand full for higher cost

If that order had gone thru we would have had almost 120-140 F16 flying , prior to buying the 18 C/D jets in 2006 and off 13 planes we got later

Peace Gate I (Batch 1 : Clean Deal)
In December 1981, the government of Pakistan signed a letter of agreement for the purchase of up to 40 F-16A/B (28 F-16A and 12 F-16B) fighters for the Pakistan Fiza'ya (Pakistan Air Force, or PAF). The deal would be split into two batches, one of 6 aircraft and the other of 34

Peace Gate II (Batch 2 : Clean Deal)
The remaining 34 aircraft were delivered under Peace Gate II

Peace Gate III (Embargoed)
Seven years after the first order, in December of 1988, Pakistan ordered 11 additional F-16A/B Block 15 OCU (Operational Capability Upgrade) aircraft (6 Alpha and 5 Bravo models) under the Peace Gate III program. These aircraft were purchased as attrition replacements and fully paid for, but are still awaiting delivery in the Arizona Desert

Peace Gate IV (Embargoed)
In September of 1989, plans were announced by Pakistan to acquire 60 more F-16A/B's. A contract was signed in the same year under the Peace Gate IV Foreign Military Sales Programs, for the delivery of 60 F-16s for US $1.4 billion or approximately US $23 million a piece.

Peace Drive (Clean Deal)
Finally, after long series of negotiations, on September 30th, 2006 the contract was signed between the Pakistani and US government for the acquisition of 18 new F-16C/D block 52 aircraft and an option for another 18 more

Second hand purchase (Clean deal)
13 more planes



Impact on Federal Reserves or Cost to Pakistan due to money devaluation
In 1990 , Pakistani Rupee was 30 Rupees per 1 Dollar ratio
That ratio is 1:101 (Double the amount of money we have to pay for every plane)

 

[IrbiS]

Well forget the planes we got in 80's (Those numbers are not in question those were clean deals)

I am talking about the shipment in 90's that was cancelled after it was fully paid

After that saga , we only received hand full for higher cost

If that order had gone thru we would have had almost 120-140 F16 flying , prior to buying the 18 C/D jets in 2006 and off 13 planes we got later

Peace Gate I (Batch 1 : Clean Deal)
In December 1981, the government of Pakistan signed a letter of agreement for the purchase of up to 40 F-16A/B (28 F-16A and 12 F-16B) fighters for the Pakistan Fiza'ya (Pakistan Air Force, or PAF). The deal would be split into two batches, one of 6 aircraft and the other of 34

Peace Gate II (Batch 2 : Clean Deal)
The remaining 34 aircraft were delivered under Peace Gate II

Peace Gate III (Embargoed)
Seven years after the first order, in December of 1988, Pakistan ordered 11 additional F-16A/B Block 15 OCU (Operational Capability Upgrade) aircraft (6 Alpha and 5 Bravo models) under the Peace Gate III program. These aircraft were purchased as attrition replacements and fully paid for, but are still awaiting delivery in the Arizona Desert

Peace Gate IV (Embargoed)
In September of 1989, plans were announced by Pakistan to acquire 60 more F-16A/B's. A contract was signed in the same year under the Peace Gate IV Foreign Military Sales Programs, for the delivery of 60 F-16s for US $1.4 billion or approximately US $23 million a piece.

Peace Drive (Clean Deal)
Finally, after long series of negotiations, on September 30th, 2006 the contract was signed between the Pakistani and US government for the acquisition of 18 new F-16C/D block 52 aircraft and an option for another 18 more

Second hand purchase (Clean deal)
13 more planes



Impact on Federal Reserves or Cost to Pakistan due to money devaluation
In 1990 , Pakistani Rupee was 30 Rupees per 1 Dollar ratio
That ratio is 1:101 (Double the amount of money we have to pay for every plane)

I thought we were talking numbers too. Anyway, Embargoed F-16 were stored and we got wheat, then they tried to sold them but couldn't get customers so those frames went to agressor squadrons and I'm not sure right now but they paid the too in 1995-2000. Even if they didn't, can we take it from them?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well , I think the real damage is done on money devaluation but we have JF17 Program and hopefully we recover some F16 via FMS programs lets see

 

[IrbiS]

Well , I think the real damage is done on money devaluation but we have JF17 Program and hopefully we recover some F16 via FMS programs lets see

Now that's the spirit : Forget bad past, look ahead and get what you can.

 

[Hurter]

Well forget the planes we got in 80's (Those numbers are not in question those were clean deals)

I am talking about the shipment in 90's that was cancelled after it was fully paid

After that saga , we only received hand full for higher cost

If that order had gone thru we would have had almost 120-140 F16 flying , prior to buying the 18 C/D jets in 2006 and off 13 planes we got later

Peace Gate I (Batch 1 : Clean Deal)
In December 1981, the government of Pakistan signed a letter of agreement for the purchase of up to 40 F-16A/B (28 F-16A and 12 F-16B) fighters for the Pakistan Fiza'ya (Pakistan Air Force, or PAF). The deal would be split into two batches, one of 6 aircraft and the other of 34

Peace Gate II (Batch 2 : Clean Deal)
The remaining 34 aircraft were delivered under Peace Gate II

Peace Gate III (Embargoed)
Seven years after the first order, in December of 1988, Pakistan ordered 11 additional F-16A/B Block 15 OCU (Operational Capability Upgrade) aircraft (6 Alpha and 5 Bravo models) under the Peace Gate III program. These aircraft were purchased as attrition replacements and fully paid for, but are still awaiting delivery in the Arizona Desert

Peace Gate IV (Embargoed)
In September of 1989, plans were announced by Pakistan to acquire 60 more F-16A/B's. A contract was signed in the same year under the Peace Gate IV Foreign Military Sales Programs, for the delivery of 60 F-16s for US $1.4 billion or approximately US $23 million a piece.

Peace Drive (Clean Deal)
Finally, after long series of negotiations, on September 30th, 2006 the contract was signed between the Pakistani and US government for the acquisition of 18 new F-16C/D block 52 aircraft and an option for another 18 more

Second hand purchase (Clean deal)
13 more planes



Impact on Federal Reserves or Cost to Pakistan due to money devaluation
In 1990 , Pakistani Rupee was 30 Rupees per 1 Dollar ratio
That ratio is 1:101 (Double the amount of money we have to pay for every plane)

Will Pakistan get brand new 18 block 52 if the deal approves by U.S?

 

[IrbiS]

Will Pakistan get brand new 18 block 52 if the deal approves by U.S?

Yes if they agree and we ask 'em.

 

[HRK]

Thats $5.77 mils a pop.. What a bargain!!!

One of my old post regarding F-16 acquisition from Jordan: Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan | Page 83

The Total Acquisition cost of Jordan for 16 units of Peace Falcon-I F-16 block-15 OCU (upgraded to ADF) was $ 220 million (13.750 Avg.) including additional items as mention under, but on average the actual acquisition cost for every single bird was around $10.815 million during 1997 & 1998 see the table attached below (column: Unit Acquisition Value) or download the Excess Defense Articles report from the website of Defence Security Cooperation Agency USA

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that deal was really beneficial to both countries as Jordan recovered 34% of the cost of Peace Falcon-I program even after utilizing the F-16s for 16 years.

 

[Basel]

100 more such vipers are not available. You tell, where would they come from?

True, but if PAF is so much love with US stuff then they can look for used F-18s or F-15 with MLU, I think few used F-18s will be available.

 

[sathya]

True, but if PAF is so much love with US stuff then they can look for used F-18s or F-15 with MLU, I think few used F-18s will be available.

F 16 are in 1000s and f 18 are in hundreds ..

Pakistan have all facilities and training already for F 16, not for F 18

Going for F18 or F 15 will become really expensive for you.. Even for the used ones..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We should request any F15 OR F16 via FMS , or Defence article program