Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Informant]

The F-7PG is too different to the F-16, so I don't think the comparison is fair. With the amount of spying that the US does, and the massive concern the US has about China, why should it be out of the realms of reality that they're monitoring such activities closely?


First of all, stop saying "Hi" everytime you post a comment. You don't say hi everytime you say something to someone in the real world, so why should this be different?

Next, this isn't a conspiracy theory, it's fact that the US monitors Pakistan F-16s closely for fear of the tech falling into Chinese hands. Why do you think they made a big uproar about the stealth heli crash wreckage during the Abbotabad raid? Not everything can be dismissed as a conspiracy theory.

Now, everything else you've said except for the second last sentence, I think proves my point. You're actually making my argument for me, so thank you very much.

The Americans don't shy away from competition, but that doesn't mean they'll let go of their technological advancements that easily. They don't want their potential rival to know what US machines are capable off, because that would hurt their national security.

You're being too optimistic, and ignoring security and geopolitical facts.

Quit it man, F-16s have no restriction to not fly with Chinese planes. Not on Chinese soil or by Chinese technicians. That's it, we are free to do whatever we want to. That guy you're ralking to is Ex-PAF Pilot Officer. Come on man just quit it.

 

[airmarshal]

Quit it man, F-16s have no restriction to not fly with Chinese planes. Not on Chinese soil or by Chinese technicians. That's it, we are free to do whatever we want to. That guy you're ralking to is Ex-PAF Pilot Officer. Come on man just quit it.

As far as I know, the only thing we cant do is to have access to the source code of F-16 software. Few countries have been given access to it, like Turkey.

The advantage of the access is that source code can be modified for weapons and pods other than those sanctioned by US, Like Turkey can adapt local weapons to its F-16 fleet which Pakistan cant.

 

[Nishan_101]

Pakistan needs to work well with US in getting F-16s back.

 

[Informant]

As far as I know, the only thing we cant do is to have access to the source code of F-16 software. Few countries have been given access to it, like Turkey.

The advantage of the access is that source code can be modified for weapons and pods other than those sanctioned by US, Like Turkey can adapt local weapons to its F-16 fleet which Pakistan cant.

If i recall correctly we have complete access, it is just fluff propagated through media. No such thing as not having codes. Do we have the capability to produce weaponry is another matter.

 

[Munir]

If i recall correctly we have complete access, it is just fluff propagated through media. No such thing as not having codes. Do we have the capability to produce weaponry is another matter.

One cannot just add something on the pylon... It is a very complex process on integrating in the computer of the plane and then trials to get it accepted. Do you thing the producer will accept the risks? I doubt that. Besides that one has rules of acceptance..

 

[Donatello]

While it is good news that Pakistan might be increasing the F-16 fleet strength in coming years, it must also increase the spare parts and weapons stock to ensure these jets can easily be worked, even if sanctions were imposed for a limited or longer time period.

 

[Luftwaffe]

While it is good news that Pakistan might be increasing the F-16 fleet strength in coming years, it must also increase the spare parts and weapons stock to ensure these jets can easily be worked, even if sanctions were imposed for a limited or longer time period.

Already doing it, this time they've learned their lesson related to F-16s.

But you are right PAF need to increase weapons stock related to F-16 fleet maybe buy AIM-9X and AIM-120C-7 and or D variant.

 

[Donatello]

Already doing it, this time they've learned their lesson related to F-16s.

But you are right PAF need to increase weapons stock related to F-16 fleet maybe buy AIM-9X and AIM-120C-7 and or D variant.

AIM9X might be hard to come by, depends a lot on the ongoing warming of ties b/w US and Pakistan.It really is a game changer in the WVR scenario and US would be keen to not give PAF this advantage in India vs Pakistan scenario. However, i think the reason they gave PAF AIM120 was that Pakistan was already on track to field SD-10 (which is comparable to AIM120) and thus already a game changer. If PAF can source an alternate to AIM9X, US might give in and offer Pakistan AIM9X.

 

[Luftwaffe]

AIM9X might be hard to come by, depends a lot on the ongoing warming of ties b/w US and Pakistan.It really is a game changer in the WVR scenario and US would be keen to not give PAF this advantage in India vs Pakistan scenario. However, i think the reason they gave PAF AIM120 was that Pakistan was already on track to field SD-10 (which is comparable to AIM120) and thus already a game changer. If PAF can source an alternate to AIM9X, US might give in and offer Pakistan AIM9X.

Even if there is alternative to AIM-9X would US let PAF integrate on F-16s I doubt so, if AIM-120 a game changer is sold to Pakistan 500 of them US should be able to sell AIM-9X provided request to purchase it..

 

[Donatello]

Even if there is alternative to AIM-9X would US let PAF integrate on F-16s I doubt so, if AIM-120 a game changer is sold to Pakistan 500 of them US should be able to sell AIM-9X provided request to purchase it..

I meant that if PAF can field a missile comparable to AIM9X on say JF-17 which will form the backbone of PAF fleet, then US would would be compelled to offer AIM9X for F-16s, as PAF already would have gotten that capability on other platforms. AIM120 came as PAF got SD-10 for JF-17s. Remember US did not offer AIM120 to Egypt. And i am sure PAF would have requested AIM9X already, just like the AGM88 HARM which was denied.

 

[Luftwaffe]

I meant that if PAF can field a missile comparable to AIM9X on say JF-17 which will form the backbone of PAF fleet, then US would would be compelled to offer AIM9X for F-16s, as PAF already would have gotten that capability on other platforms. AIM120 came as PAF got SD-10 for JF-17s. Remember US did not offer AIM120 to Egypt. And i am sure PAF would have requested AIM9X already, just like the AGM88 HARM which was denied.

AIM-120 to egypt is not offered because israelis don't want US to arm egypt's 200+F-16s since egypt is one country that can turn against allys anytime a very ungrateful nation by nature, imagine if egypt is armed with 1200 AIM-120C that would be nightmare. On the other hand egypt has AH-64A upgraded to D Block II Apache and US never offered us that.

Although it is a good news that Pakistan AIM9M upgraded to AIM-9M-8 and-9.
$5.9M to Upgrade 310 AIM-9 Sidewinders for Pakistan (updated)

 

[airmarshal]

If i recall correctly we have complete access, it is just fluff propagated through media. No such thing as not having codes. Do we have the capability to produce weaponry is another matter.

Not a question of production of weaponry. We do have French weapons that F-16 cant carry. Its because we cant integrate these weapons to F-16.

 

[SQ8]

AIM-120 to egypt is not offered because israelis don't want US to arm egypt's 200+F-16s since egypt is one country that can turn against allys anytime a very ungrateful nation by nature, imagine if egypt is armed with 1200 AIM-120C that would be nightmare. On the other hand egypt has AH-64A upgraded to D Block II Apache and US never offered us that.

Although it is a good news that Pakistan AIM9M upgraded to AIM-9M-8 and-9.
$5.9M to Upgrade 310 AIM-9 Sidewinders for Pakistan (updated)

The 120C is now being sold to egypt as the Israelis have gained all that they need to know how to defeat the missiles(those being sold to egypt specifically and the model in general).

Also, the AH-64 does not change the equation for Israel in the reigion that much. And the US was more interested(as proven) in allowing Egypt to control separatists as and when needed. Israel is not the only threat to Egypt as the Palestinians with Hamas are also taken as a threat.

I meant that if PAF can field a missile comparable to AIM9X on say JF-17 which will form the backbone of PAF fleet, then US would would be compelled to offer AIM9X for F-16s, as PAF already would have gotten that capability on other platforms. AIM120 came as PAF got SD-10 for JF-17s. Remember US did not offer AIM120 to Egypt. And i am sure PAF would have requested AIM9X already, just like the AGM88 HARM which was denied.

Such a missile was in the works from either SA or Brazil. However, it may be that the Indian Lobby in both nations has now gained the upper hand(via direct investment by India in the economies of these nations) that the government pushes the private firms in these two countries not to sell any crucial equipment to Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

The 120C is now being sold to egypt as the Israelis have gained all that they need to know how to defeat the missiles(those being sold to egypt specifically and the model in general).

As is the rule these days, all sorts of "magic" is possible in software.

 

[SQ8]

If i recall correctly we have complete access, it is just fluff propagated through media. No such thing as not having codes. Do we have the capability to produce weaponry is another matter.

No we do not have the source codes. To integrate a new weapon on the F-16 of today requires access to the software and mission computer. That task is only carried out by authorized modification firms that are verified by both the OEM and the US government.
examples of such firms apart from the OEM LockMart are BAE, IAI, TAI and Northrop Grumman.

So if the PAF wants to integrate a new missile, it has to put in a request to the US FMS program, then to LockMart.. and then to its desired contractor for the upgrade. In the past , the PAF has integrated weapons on its F-16A/B fleet but this was very analogue in nature with a lot less digital or software modifications being done.

As is the rule these days, all sorts of "magic" is possible in software.

That it is, but the US is smart in its selective software screening. Sometimes it lets particular nations have what they want to ensure that US calculations and desires for outcomes to conflicts are met in the region.