Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Najam Khan]

As of today 12 MLUs are flying with PAF. So far the MLU modernization project is going on track (funds allocated in 2008) and hopefully it will end by late 2014/early 2015.

 

[nomi007]

not pakistan but cool image

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Please educate me, but to me that seems a bit on the low side, considering the Indians have BVR of much longer ranges esp those mated to their SU30 radars. Is the C8 available to PAF if we decide to purchase this version?

Thats superb nominal range for an ACTIVE fire and forget BVR.We have r-27ET variants but they are infrared homing or semi active, less effective thAn active rounds.Our Active round the r-77 has range of 80-90km nominally.
In any case this nominal range means nothing,most BVr's will miss completely at max range and this range is assuming both aircraft are head on.In tail chase ranges are reduced drastically for all missiles.The real figure that matters is the 'no escape zone' and that always classified.That along with elctronic endurance of missile.This missile is the best BVR in the subcontinent atm,till rafale comes with meteor.Yes it will still be at a disadvantage against mki launching r-27Ets at around 130km.But again max range low effcetiveness and not active rounds so less Kill probability.You could say in a BVR fight this and mkis RCS are the 2 equalizers that offset f-16s weakness in radar and payload.In WVR things are bad as Sukhoi has TVC,more TW ratio,better AoA and most important HMS/High off boresight r-73 combo.To offset this i heard pak looking to equip its fighters with high off boresight missiles like european iris-t or south african/brazilian JV A-darter as america won't sell aim-9x,russia won't sell r-73 and israel won't sell python-5 which are the other 3 HOB WVR's available.

 

[Liquidmetal]

great answer, buddy, thanks.

 

[SQ8]

Thats superb nominal range for an ACTIVE fire and forget BVR.We have r-27ET variants but they are infrared homing or semi active, less effective thAn active rounds.Our Active round the r-77 has range of 80-90km nominally.
In any case this nominal range means nothing,most BVr's will miss completely at max range and this range is assuming both aircraft are head on.In tail chase ranges are reduced drastically for all missiles.The real figure that matters is the 'no escape zone' and that always classified.That along with elctronic endurance of missile.This missile is the best BVR in the subcontinent atm,.

Which missile? the Aim-120-C-5?? Yes , Id agree on the basis of real world test and operational performance of previous models.

The R-27 and 77 series.. not so much. Id place greater faith in the ASTRA.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Which missile? the Aim-120-C-5?? Yes , Id agree on the basis of real world test and operational performance of previous models.

The R-27 and 77 series.. not so much. Id place greater faith in the ASTRA.

I MEANT AIM-120C-5 is the best BVR in the subcontinent atm,larger range ,better electronic endurance.FiRE AND FORGET ACTIVE SEEKER.Aircraft won't have to keep illuminating target with radar.Its somewhat better than r-77 rvv-ae.

 

[SQ8]

I MEANT AIM-120C-5 is the best BVR in the subcontinent atm,larger range ,better electronic endurance.FiRE AND FORGET ACTIVE SEEKER.Aircraft won't have to keep illuminating target with radar.Its somewhat better than r-77 rvv-ae.

Until whatever arms the Rafale comes into service.. Not the MICA.. but whether its an AMRAAM variant or the Meteor.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Until whatever arms the Rafale comes into service.. Not the MICA.. but whether its an AMRAAM variant or the Meteor.

When did i say anything about mica?I said meteor will surpass it which is true worldwide.

 

[SQ8]

When did i say anything about mica?I said meteor will surpass it which is true worldwide.

Too close between Meteor and AIM-120D to call.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Too close between Meteor and AIM-120D to call.

Meteor is said to have 3 times NEZ of aim-120 c and 2 times that of aim-120 d.

Meteor is a ramjet BVR AAM. As such, it does not carry onboard oxygen, but rather uses oxygen from surrounding air, allowing it to hold more fuel. Result is better acceleration, top speed, and range for a given missile size.
AIM-120 has advantage in range.
But range adv is reduced by use of advanced jammers and most imortant use of LO/stealth aircraft which is certain in future.Huge ranges won't matter as radar won't even pick up aircraft till its quite close.In future Aerial warfare missile performance/electronic endurance is probably more imp than missile range alone.

As to what NEZ means for any other readers,
''To explain terminology here, NEZ is NOT a zone where a hit is guaranteed; rather, it is a zone where enemy aircraft cannot outrun missile, waiting for it to run out of fuel, but rather has to outturn it). Higher speed allows it to reduce time to target, and thus opponent’s reaction time, as well as to retain energy for longer after engine has burned out''.

 

[SQ8]

Meteor is said to have 3 times NEZ of aim-120 c and 2 times that of aim-120 d.

Meteor is a ramjet BVR AAM. As such, it does not carry onboard oxygen, but rather uses oxygen from surrounding air, allowing it to hold more fuel. Result is better acceleration, top speed, and range for a given missile size.
AIM-120 has advantage in range.
But range adv is reduced by use of advanced jammers and most imortant use of LO/stealth aircraft which is certain in future.Huge ranges won't matter as radar won't even pick up aircraft till its quite close.In future Aerial warfare missile performance/electronic endurance is probably more imp than missile range alone.

As to what NEZ means for any other readers,
''To explain terminology here, NEZ is NOT a zone where a hit is guaranteed; rather, it is a zone where enemy aircraft cannot outrun missile, waiting for it to run out of fuel, but rather has to outturn it). Higher speed allows it to reduce time to target, and thus opponent’s reaction time, as well as to retain energy for longer after engine has burned out''.

You are basing the NEZ on what parameters? Engagement speed? The Aim-120D is at 180km.. thats the flight range..
The 120D has better guidance, better ECCM.. The Meteor is still without an update to match it electronically.
In any case, that is beyond this thread.. but better suited to the general military forum.

 

[Donatello]

@Oscar

How many hours our pilots on F-16 rack up in a month and in a year?

 

[nomi007]

FIRE CONTROL

The frontal sector optronics (OSF)
Located at the foot of the glass on the front of the cockpit, in a volume of 80 liters, it has the characteristic of being passive, not emitting energy, which makes the operation almost indétectable.C is a complete system in service on any other fighter aircraft in service monde.Son operation is similar to a radar in the air / air and the air / open function.
- It detects and locates targets
- Identifies the target
- Analysis training
- The result of fire.
He also participated well in tamper aircraft to attack.
With its infrared capabilities, it provides a valuable aid for night driving.
The OSF has a fully integrated navigation system and attack aircraft.

FUNCTION AIR / AIR:

The OSF provides research, acquisition and tracking of air targets in two dimensions with total discretion, and in three dimensions using the laser path.
With important functions:
- Analysis of raids
- Analysis of shooting results
- Visual recognition of targets.
The main qualities of the sensor are its discretion, its ability to function integrates electronic jamming environment, its wide angular range and accuracy of the supplied parameters.

AIR / LAND & SEA SERVICE:

The many modes of air-to-air operation, air-ground and air-sea are configured automatically based on the scheduled task for the plane, or at the request of the pilot during the flight.
The OSF retains its capacity for research and acquisition.
The imaging mode analysis and target tracking, telemetry mode localization three dimensions.
The OSF is composed of two optical paths:
- Dedicated to the infrared, and a head which is a stabilized flush ball above the nose of the aircraft
The IR channel has a day / tracking and imaging function function, respectively called IRST and FLIR.
- Bringing a TV channel and a laser rangefinder.

TV / laser path is reserved for target identification and telemetry. Both have a wide range of excursion and offer the possibility for the driver to choose the field of vision of his choice.

The RBE2

Characteristics associated with "fire and forget" missile Mica and integrated into a system which merges data from other sensors (including remote identification), the RBE2 is a fundamental part of the fire control "simultaneous multi-target" the Rafale.

FUNCTION AIR / AIR:
radar implements a detection mode and automatic distance of dozens of air targets continued in all possible configurations:
- Reconciliation
-Distance
- Up
- Downwards.
The fineness of the prosecution gives descriptions of objectives specific to the fire control Mica missile.

Electronic scanning optimizes the compromise area monitored / tracked targets and gives the crew the way to engage targets of his choice while continuing to monitor the emergence of potential threats in the designated space portion.

An essential contribution in attack ground and sea

For ground attack, the radar provides real time information, regardless of weather conditions, the automatic tracking of ground in the vertical plane at very low altitude. This capability is coupled to the flight controls and overcomes the most adverse shooting missiles by releasing basic flight crew for the benefit of the conduct of the mission. The RBE2 is also able to provide the system with lateral avoidance of unexpected obstacles in mission planning information.

AIR / LAND & SEA SERVICE:

The RBE2 is a single sensor can be configured to scale the second to deal with an aerial threat or allow the destruction of a target surface:

Versatility: all components of the weapon system Rafale bring their contribution, since the simultaneous carriage of Mica missiles and arms air-ground and continuous availability in the operational software of all fire control air air, air-to-ground and air-Sea.

The RBE2 provides the information necessary for registration of the inertial / GPS navigation, and allows the exact description of ground targets in all weathers.
In attack the sea, RBE2 delivers long-range analysis of the tactical situation with identification and classification of targets and allows firing Exocet-type missile systems outside surface to air defense.

these are detail of rafale
which type of FIRE CONTROL

The frontal sector optronics (OSF) in f-16 bl-52

 

[SQ8]

The frontal sector optronics (OSF) in f-16 bl-52

No F-16 block-52 carries anything as such as a IRST system. The picture is a Rafale which even the canopy dictates.
The only operational F-16 with an IRST is the UAE Block-60.

 

[Storm Force]

THIS IS STIL THE BEST COMBAT PLANE that PAF can field and IMO will remain so for the NEAR FUTURE.

I stil feel loking at PAF limited options THE PAF should go AND GET more F16 especially BLOCK 52.

if pakistans PLAY THIS CORRECTLY they could even be GRANT supported/aided. BUT you have to TALK THE SAME language AS USA.

Something you did VERY WELL IN THE PAST yet retained your independant NATIONAL INTERESTS as well.

63 F16s (18 block 52S) WILL GIVE iaf A HEADACHE but is not unsurmoutable (WAT YOU HAVE TODAY)

125 F16 (60 block 52) will give PAF air superiority at least over THEIR AIRS[PACE (WAT YOU NEED TODAY)