Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[sancho]

i'm wondering what the PAF costs are. one cannot make a straight conversion based on FX rate but a realistic estimate would be 50% of the USAF cost. that is $ 10-12,000 per hour or is that still too high?

The problem is, that most countries include different things into the operational, but that costs is indeed pretty high for an F16, that normally is rated around $7500, Gripen around $5000, the F18SH around $10000, Rafale around $13000 according to figures from the Brazilian FX2 competition.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Gut feeling tells me the costs include pre-flight checks by ground crew, fuel, and if course post flight/mission they do comprehensive checks. These aircrafts have so many moving parts (some which get hot!) so I guess costs include maintenance type shyt

On higher tech fighters there are components that have to be changed after each flight, etc

I'm not speaking from authority though .

Ground techies on PAF bases make nowhere near as much income and our flight hours are hell less than US for obvious reasons

 

[fatman17]

AESA radar sparks new life into the F-16

Singapore Air Show » February 16, 2012

by David Donald and Chris Pocock


An F-16 in the flying display underlines interest in possible future variance with the AESA radar.

Lockheed Martin yesterday unveiled a new version of the evergreen F-16 Fighting Falcon designated the F-16V. The new moniker is derived from the fighter’s long-standing unofficial nickname: Viper. It will apply to existing aircraft that are upgraded with AESA radars, and new builds. The F-16V will also include a new mission computer and cockpit display.


At the Singapore Airshow, Northrop Grumman and Raytheon are busy promoting their competing AESAs for the F-16V, in a scrap that increasingly looks like “winner takes all.” Six days ago the U.S. Air Force issued a second request for information covering an AESA upgrade for its F-16s, having initially asked industry last August. This upgrade could cover about 350 aircraft in a program driven by delays in fielding the F-35.

Korea has just issued an RFP for an AESA radar upgrade to its F-16s, and the U.S. government has offered the same to Taiwan as a less politically sensitive response to its request for 66 new F-16s. In January, Northrop Grumman joined Raytheon in receiving government authorization to export their wares to the two Asian countries. Although the U.S. Air Force and export programs are separate, it appears highly probable that the export customers will await the outcome of the U.S. decision before making their own choices.

Both radar houses possess good credentials. Raytheon is offering the RACR (Raytheon Advanced Combat Radar), which builds on the experience gained with delivering hundreds of AESA radars into the Boeing Super Hornet program. Northrop Grumman is the incumbent radar supplier in the F-16, having produced more than 6,000 radars for the aircraft in over 30 years. That number, swelled by mid-life upgrades, includes 80 earlier APG-80 AESA units for the United Arab Emirates’ Block 60 F-16E/Fs. It also built the F-22’s AESA radar, and is supplying the APG-81 for the F-35.

Commonality of modes with the F-35 and resultant cross-program synergy is seen as one of the key attributes of Northrop Grumman’s SABR (scalable agile beam radar) proposal. Indeed, no new modes were created for the SABR, all being ported in from the APG-81. The company highlights the cost efficiencies that could be gained from sharing costs for future mode development across a SABR-equipped F-16 fleet as well as the F-35.

New Baseline

Lockheed Martin vice president business development George Standridge said that the F-16V would be the new baseline, building on the current production Block 50/52 version and two previous upgrades: the F-16A/B Mid-Life Update (MLU) and the F-16C/D Common Configuration Improvement Program (CCIP). The company said it has developed an innovative solution to affordably retrofit the key AESA technology. This is a reference to the new mission computer, and a new high-speed data bus, bringing enhanced information to the pilot via a high-resolution color upgrade to the two existing F-16 displays, and addition of a large display on the cockpit pedestal. The F-16V also features a new data link that provides interoperability with the F-22 and the F-35.

Continued production of new F-16s is currently assured through 2015, thanks to recent orders from Morocco (delivering now), Egypt (2013), Oman (2014) and Iraq (2015). More than 4,400 Vipers have been built, with the landmark 4,500th due for rollout this year. There have been no fewer than 53 follow-on buys by 14 customers.

Tags: AircraftAviationJet aircraftJoint Electronics Type Designation SystemRadarStealth aircraftCarrier-based aircraftActive Electronically Scanned ArrayAN/APG-81

 

[Windjammer]

Something you don't see often, the rear cockpit of an F-16D.

 

[fatman17]

The problem is, that most countries include different things into the operational, but that costs is indeed pretty high for an F16, that normally is rated around $7500, Gripen around $5000, the F18SH around $10000, Rafale around $13000 according to figures from the Brazilian FX2 competition.

i know helos like Mi-17 and Pumas run around PKR 10,000/hour.

 

[Jango]

Is the sensitivity of sticks the Pilot and GIBS the same?

For example, in a AH-1F Cobra, the Weapons officer has a stick of higher sensitivity as he has less space to work with, it is in a ratio of 1:4. THat means that if the pilot at the back has to move his stick 4 inches (hypothetical) for moving left, the guy at the front has to move his stick one inch to get the same action.

So how is it like in the Viper?
@Oscar, @gambit.

I am guessing it's the same since both sticks are on the side and FBW.

 

[gambit]

Is the sensitivity of sticks the Pilot and GIBS the same?

For example, in a AH-1F Cobra, the Weapons officer has a stick of higher sensitivity as he has less space to work with, it is in a ratio of 1:4. THat means that if the pilot at the back has to move his stick 4 inches (hypothetical) for moving left, the guy at the front has to move his stick one inch to get the same action.

So how is it like in the Viper?
@Oscar, @gambit.

I am guessing it's the same since both sticks are on the side and FBW.

For the -16? There are no 'sensitivity' adjustment and I have been in both front and rear cockpits. Contrary to what the movies portrayed, on the -16, the stick is barely noticeable in movement and you would have to literally eyeball the thing to see any displacement.

Gut feeling tells me the costs include pre-flight checks by ground crew, fuel, and if course post flight/mission they do comprehensive checks. These aircrafts have so many moving parts (some which get hot!) so I guess costs include maintenance type shyt

On higher tech fighters there are components that have to be changed after each flight, etc

I'm not speaking from authority though .

Ground techies on PAF bases make nowhere near as much income and our flight hours are hell less than US for obvious reasons

Only with time dependent, meaning X flight hours passed, components. Else if the jet RTB 'Code One', you leave the thing alone other than check tires, oil, LOX, and assorted other 'consumables'.

 

[Jango]

For the -16? There are no 'sensitivity' adjustment and I have been in both front and rear cockpits. Contrary to what the movies portrayed, on the -16, the stick is barely noticeable in movement and you would have to literally eyeball the thing to see any displacement.

Yeah, I was referring to the F-16.

What about the other two seaters? Is it same across the fleet or does any aircraft have different sensitivity b/w both pilots?

 

[gambit]

Yeah, I was referring to the F-16.

What about the other two seaters? Is it same across the fleet or does any aircraft have different sensitivity b/w both pilots?

I know the F-111 does not have such 'sensitivity/travel' adjustment. The -111 is my 1st assignment in the USAF. The -111 is single cockpit but with dual controls (side by side) and the sticks are mechanically linked, meaning if one pilot move his stick, the other will displace as well. I have been inside the F-4 and F-15s, including dual cockpits for the -15, and I do not recall seeing any kind of 'sensitivity/travel' adjustment for limited customization for each pilot.

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Kompromat]

Musharaff's support to fight terrorists in Pakistan has strengthened PAF.

And it turned Pakistan into a fireball. Thanks to you.

 

[MastanKhan]

And it turned Pakistan into a fireball. Thanks to you.

You should have killed them when you had the oppurtunity. But the problem with people with good jobs, good comfortable life style, good living, good incomes, is that they don't really want to kill trouble makers.

They are so secure in their welbeing---that they don't want to believe if there exists a problem---if it means that just by mere acknowledgement in time---it may bring a change in their existing life styles.

My man---you should have executed them when they were weak and on the run---.

Don't blame Musharraf----blame yourself.

 

[fatman17]

30 Apr 1993
PAF accepts first F-16 from Peace Gate IV order, but the aircraft are embargoed.

 

[Pinnacle]

Any news about more f-16 block 52s ??
I heard Paf is going to buy 14 to 18 more new f-16s in 2013.. !!

 

[Munir]

Any news about more f-16 block 52s ??
I heard Paf is going to buy 14 to 18 more new f-16s in 2013.. !!

waiting for same...