Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Arsalan]

the engine upgrade comes in the US programme of MLU and not the turkish STAR upgrade programme, the star upgrade will include incerased serviceability of air frame along with modrenization of some components of avionics while the US MLU will give engine upgrade, sniper pod, AIM120 firing ability and avionics upgrade to carry out these equipment!
i hope this makes the difference between the US offered MLU and turkish offered STAR upgrade programme a bit clear! for further detail go through the post of mean-bird in this thread, that will be helpfull! (sorry but i could not manage to repeat those post for your viewing, do check them for youself)

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

ummmmmmmmm ok thanx

 

[fatman17]

the MLU in the US would have taken even longer - now the turks are not sitting idle waiting for our F-16s to arrive for the MLU - they are also upgrading 165 turkish AF F-16s at the same time.

so not a bad deal overall - remember PAF has to schedule the MLU in such a manner that is dosnt de-grade its operational prepardness!

 

[Arsalan]

the MLU in the US would have taken even longer - now the turks are not sitting idle waiting for our F-16s to arrive for the MLU - they are also upgrading 165 turkish AF F-16s at the same time.

so not a bad deal overall - remember PAF has to schedule the MLU in such a manner that is dosnt de-grade its operational prepardness!

yesindeed sir! the MLU if went according to plan will be completed by some where in 2011-2012 and by that time the turkish upgrades will be on there way!
so, again, IF every thing go according to plan the fleet of our F16 will turn into a leathal force with ability to serve us for another 7 to 10 years!

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

yesindeed sir! the MLU if went according to plan will be completed by some where in 2011-2012 and by that time the turkish upgrades will be on there way!
so, again, IF every thing go according to plan the fleet of our F16 will turn into a leathal force with ability to serve us for another 7 to 10 years!
regards!

7 to 10 years? who will replace them JXX?

 

[Arsalan]

7 to 10 years? who will replace them JXX?

perhaps more J10 will come in to play, the time frame may increas on base of maturity and evolution of J10 programme!!
well it is just my view poinmt and anyone may disagree with this!

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

perhaps more J10 will come in to play, the time frame may increas on base of maturity and evolution of J10 programme!!
well it is just my view poinmt and anyone may disagree with this!

regards!

J-10s will be there alongwith falcons i expect either J-11s or the roumered J-10 J-11 hybrid entreing PAF service

 

[Arsalan]

J-10s will be there alongwith falcons i expect either J-11s or the roumered J-10 J-11 hybrid entreing PAF service

it dont seems to be happening as PAF wont be going for twin engine planes in the near future and afterwards we may have the requirment to shift towards 4.5 and enev may be 5 generation planes!

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

it dont seems to be happening as PAF wont be going for twin engine planes in the near future and afterwards we may have the requirment to shift towards 4.5 and enev may be 5 generation planes!

regards!

I mean why we are assuming that we will stick to our theory of single engine ACs its like limiting our combat potential.As PAF is a reactive force i exepect a change if IAF goes for MCRA big time

 

[araz]

http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/olc/docs/testWieringa080916.pdf

Some updated info provided by Mr Jawad of Pakdef.info forum. Might give viewers an idea odf the current situation with regards to F16s
Araz

 

[SBD-3]

there are no improvements to the Block 15s mission range and loiter time; there are no engine improvements; and, there are no improvements to payload capacity.

will it be covered with STAR upgrade????

 

[mean_bird]

http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/olc/docs/testWieringa080916.pdf

Some updated info provided by Mr Jawad of Pakdef.info forum. Might give viewers an idea odf the current situation with regards to F16s
Araz

With due respect, that is 9 months old news already reported and discussed on this thread.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/25740-news-pakistans-f16-block-50-52-a.html


I have a question: Why did we buy 35 MLU kits and not for all of them? are we planning to retire a few of the F-16s that, perhaps, are not capable of undergoing STAR upgrade?

 

[Arsalan]

I have a question: Why did we buy 35 MLU kits and not for all of them? are we planning to retire a few of the F-16s that, perhaps, are not capable of undergoing STAR upgrade?

we be we have to eat one or two for spar parts! cant this be a possibility! after all they are a very old aircraft now and will be usefull only after spendings made on it in form of MLU and the STAR upgrad so may be we want to spare one or two for the reason of spare parts!

what do you think!

regards!

 

[blain2]

http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/olc/docs/testWieringa080916.pdf

Some updated info provided by Mr Jawad of Pakdef.info forum. Might give viewers an idea odf the current situation with regards to F16s
Araz

Araz sahib,

Thanks for posting. I believe this information has been around for quite a few months and all of the our current estimates on the F-16 delivery timetable are based on this document.

 

[blain2]

my brother, the MLU and turkish upgrades are different things, the MLU may well be done in about 2011 and then the turkish upgrades will take more time as they will be started some where in 2013.
i have again and again pointed that the MLU and STAR upgrades are different thing, i dont know why you people are getting it. if you thing they are the same then let me know. thw MLU is the mid life upgrade offered by the US and STAR upgrades are the ones to be done by turkey, the MLU will be done way befor the STAR upgrades.

what do you think of this?

i hope all you respected members wont take it as an offense. all i want to say is that please do not mix the MLU with STAR up[grades, mean_bird have posted some very usefull posts regarding the topic and i suggest you better have a look at them as it will help you out!

i hope you understand that i am saying all this for your information only!

regards!

Arsalan,

Actually the Turkish upgrade will do everything for the PAF. FalconSTAR is a structural integrity upgrade ideally done before the MLU. However when the aircraft is being put under the MLU, then they do the structural upgrades to the aircraft before upgrading the avionics of the aircraft.

So when Pakistan receives the F-16s from the Turkey, they will have been through FalconSTAR and the MLU. Both of the projects are very detailed and the aircraft will not be put through two different efforts (MLU and FalconSTAR). It will be done under one roof by the Turks. The initial aircraft that PAF had sent to the US were essentially aircraft to undergo feasibility study on what it would take those aircraft to go through the MLU. As I have said earlier as well, all MLUs are different owing to the integration of different types radars, weapons and ECM suites along with hundred other things.

Once the feasibility study is done, then specific to the MLU, kits/components are provided to the integrator (who in this case will be the Turks).

Essentially we are talking about a new version of Engineering Change Proposal (ECP) for the Pakistani F-16s. The current version of this ECP for structural integrity is FalconSTAR. In the past a similar kind of structural upgrade was known as PACER SLIP. Rest assured this work is done prior to the MLU and in the case of PAF F-16s, the Turks will handle both the structural and the avionics/weapons upgrade.

The only time the FalconUP has happened after the MLU has been for the EPAF (European Participating AFs) in the F-16 MLU program. They felt that their aircraft needed structural refit after flying them with the MLU for a while. The FalconSTAR gave them 8K hrs life on the airframes. So in their case this was a refit. In the case of our F-16s, all this work will be done altogether.

Also the last thing I wanted to mention was that our Turkish friends have done all of the above work for our Jordanians friends (MLU, FalconSTAR etc.).