Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[lowe1941]

As far as i recall, the offensive electronic measure usually composes of very strong interference at the same frequency of target, due to complex frequency hopping measures by modern radars it is not that easy to succeed in damaging a system this way. The more spectrum a jamming device needs to interfere with the less power at each frequency within the spectrum it shall be able to throw at the target device. This limits the chance of damaging the target system though it shall still degrade the performance of the target system.

If the frequency pattern of the radar can be predicted then the objective is to concentrate the energy at those frequencies and bombard the target system with enough energy to take the target system beyond its limits in the receive path and desensitize it or damage it permanently this way.

I honestly did not know one can attack a radar system with a virus in combat...how would the target radar be made to receive and execute a software routine which damages its DSP?
The digital signal processor may be corrupted with a virus but how would it enter the software subsystem?
UAV receives its instructions via a remote station so yes it is much easier to disrupt its communication but to damage (not disrupt) a radar/electronic suite of an advanced combat aircraft is quite a tricky thing to achieve!

Just curious, even though i am quite out of touch but still an engineer.

USAF Building Disruptor Capability Right Now
by James Dunnigan

The U.S. Air Force doesn't say much about its work on high-powered microwave (HPM) weapons. But recently the air force asked defense firms to bid on a contract to build CHAMP (Counter-Electronics HPM Advanced Missile Project). The air force wants a missile (or a pod for aircraft) that can give off several burst of HPM (that will damage or destroy any electronic gear within a certain range), and thus take out several targets. This CHAMP contract will pay $40 million to the winning bid, and allow 36 months to come up with a weapon that works. If that is accomplished, the CHAMP system would be in service within 4-5 years.

Meanwhile, quietly, and without much fanfare, the U.S. Air Force has been equipping some of its fighters with electronic ray type weapons. Not quite the death ray of science fiction fame, but an electronic ray type weapon none the less. In this case, the weapon uses the high-powered microwave (HPM) effects found in Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar technology. These radars have been around a long time, popular mainly for their ability deal with lots of targets simultaneously. But AESA is also able to focus a concentrated beam of radio energy that could scramble electronic components of a distant target. Sort of like the EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) put out by nuclear weapons.

The air force won't, for obvious reasons, discuss the exact kill range of the of the various models of AESA radars on American warplanes (the F-15, F-35 and F-22 have them). However, it is known that range in this case is an elastic thing. Depending on how well the target electronics are hardened against EMP, more electrical power will be required to do damage. Moreover, the electrical power of the various AESA radars in service varies as well. The air force has said that the larger AESA radar it plans to install on its E-10 radar aircraft would be able to zap cruise missile guidance systems up to 180 kilometers away. The E-10 AESA is several times larger than the one in the F-35 (the largest in use now), so make your own estimates. Smaller versions of this technology would arm the CHAMP system

What would an E-10 AESA radar do to a warplanes systems at 180 miles if it could zap a cruise miissile at 180 miles. Todays war planes might be like bows and arrows against machine guns or lazers.

 

[Arsalan]

why are we into it!! are we getting them via some upgrade package or are you peop;e just sharing it for Information!!

 

[lowe1941]

not sparrow but aim9p

Subject: On MiG-29 - This is interesting
FalloutBoy 1/20/2002 8:08:47 AM
After doing a bit of research, I dug up some AA combat records on the MiG-29 and F-16. The MiG-29 has only 2 AA victories, both with the Cuban Air Force - against Cuban exile Cessnas that were approaching Cuban airspace. 35-45 MiG-29s have been shot down. The F-16 by comparison has 64 AA victories (51 of these with the Israeli Air Force during the Bekaa valley engagements, and 13 with the U.S. Air Force during Desert Storm, most of the AA victories in Desert Storm were F-15s). The only F-16 that was ever shot down was with the Pakistani Air Force, a friendly fire incident involving an AIM-9 (friggin Pakistanis had to tarnish its record). I was not able to find any records of F-16 AA victories with the Pakistani Air Force, although there may be a couple

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Does anyone know the real truth behind so called "Kill Buttons" on Pakistani F-16s !!!! I have read some reports that US has got "Kill Buttons" on Pakistani F-16 to make them useless in case of wars etc.

Any views - Is it just a stupid story or any truth behind it ????

 

[TOPGUN]

No there is no such things in our f-16's as kill buttons iam pretty sure of it !

 

[shehbazi2001]

I have heard that something like 76 planes have been shot down by F16s with out any losses in air to air combat with the exception of once when one pakistan F16 shot down by another Pakistan F16 by a sparrow missle in an engagement with Afgan in the 80s. Can any one verfiy this...

There are some reports of Israeli F-16s shot down by Syrian Mig-23s. If you translate the following page from russian to english using google and read it, there is some account.

???-23 ?? ??????? ???????

 

[mean_bird]

Does anyone know the real truth behind so called "Kill Buttons" on Pakistani F-16s !!!! I have read some reports that US has got "Kill Buttons" on Pakistani F-16 to make them useless in case of wars etc.

Any views - Is it just a stupid story or any truth behind it ????

lol...Some theories are so weird, I don't know how people even believe such stuff?

Who would buy a plane with a "kill button" and what for....to put it in a museum?

 

[shehbazi2001]

Subject: On MiG-29 - This is interesting
FalloutBoy 1/20/2002 8:08:47 AM
The only F-16 that was ever shot down was with the Pakistani Air Force, a friendly fire incident involving an AIM-9 (friggin Pakistanis had to tarnish its record). I was not able to find any records of F-16 AA victories with the Pakistani Air Force, although there may be a couple

PAF did not tarnish the F-16 record, its the IDF/AF whose almost 6 F-16s were shot down (claimed) by Syrian Mig-23s in June 1982 war. Check out the following link,

Syrian Air-to-Air Victories since 1948

One can note that most of the Syrians Mig-23s shot down by IDF/AF were the ground-attack version Mig-23BN and not the air superiority variant Mig-23MF.

PAF F-16s have many victories to their credit during Afghan war.

 

[lowe1941]

PAF did not tarnish the F-16 record, its the IDF/AF whose almost 6 F-16s were shot down (claimed) by Syrian Mig-23s in June 1982 war. Check out the following link,

Syrian Air-to-Air Victories since 1948

One can note that most of the Syrians Mig-23s shot down by IDF/AF were the ground-attack version Mig-23BN and not the air superiority variant Mig-23MF.

PAF F-16s have many victories to their credit during Afghan war.

I kind of think claimed is right on those...

 

[Munir]

PAF f16's had no BVR and were in much smaller numbers with extremely hostile rules of engagement... Israeli had US backup and could do anything they wanted...

 

[ejaz007]

PAF F-16’s reportedly shot down seven fighters while suffering no losses. Fighters shot down included Su-22, Su-25, Mig-21 and Mig-23. One F-16 was lost to friendly fire.

 

[lowe1941]

PAF F-16’s reportedly shot down seven fighters while suffering no losses. Fighters shot down included Su-22, Su-25, Mig-21 and Mig-23. One F-16 was lost to friendly fire.

Why was Pakistan shooting down Afgan Jet Fighters I dont even remember that conflict.

 

[ejaz007]

Why was Pakistan shooting down Afgan Jet Fighters I dont even remember that conflict.

Not all fighters shot down were Afghan air force fighters. These also included Soviet air force fighters.

These fighters violated our air space and were shot down. This happened during Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. I hope you remember now.

 

[MastanKhan]

Not all fighters shot down were Afghan air force fighters. These also included Soviet air force fighters.

These fighters violated our air space and were shot down. This happened during Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. I hope you remember now.

Hi,

Actually the afghani / russian planes would carry out strike missions inside pakistani borders on afghan camps. PAF would have caps flying around---sometimes they would intercept the russians.

 

[PAFAce]

Actually the afghani / russian planes would carry out strike missions inside pakistani borders on afghan camps. PAF would have caps flying around---sometimes they would intercept the russians.

The PAF pilots certainly did not like the Rules of Engagements. They were almost never allowed to engage the enemy, and when they were, they had to make sure the violation was over a certain threshold (few nautical miles inside Pakistani territory), ensure that the wreckage fell inside Pakistani territory, and were not allowed to pursue the violating jets/planes if they broke off. These ROE's were designed to ensure that the Soviet Union had no valid/legal reasons to launch a large scale attack on Pakistan. Despite the suffocating ROEs, we sent a pretty good message to the enemy forces (brand-spanking-new F-16s certainly helped).

The PAF was involved in a war for 10 straight years, from 1979 to 1989, without anyone finding out. I, too, was not aware of the magnitude of the Air Force activity during those years until I actually made an effort to research the history of the Pakistan Air Force.