Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[keyboard]

If you buy them you will declare your intentions and state the conditions.

We use them against Pakistan or any other nation that come against us . we can declare it openly .... but can Pakistan do the same ????

 

[M8R]

These conditions were there in 1965 too.The sabres were meant to fight Soviet Union not Indians but if war comes then all bets are off.PAF can and will use these jets for operations against India.If you have any doubt then i think it's good for us.The people coming with F-16's are not crew members.They are LM Employees hired by US government to make sure nothing on F-16 is altered or his nothing is provided to other countries.It will take 1 year and then all crew be local.USG even today has option to come to Pakistan anytime to inspect F-16's.It's nothing new.

 

[Luftwaffe]

I am sure other nations have no time to come against you only you guys are obsessed with war.

 

[MastanKhan]

So they are giving us 500 c-5's(Advanced version of AIM - 120) to fight taliban airforce?

Hi,

Now now now---keep a lid on it and don't tell anyone. That is our secret.

 

[M8R]

Hi,

Now now now---keep a lid on it and don't tell anyone. That is our secret.

yep, no need to explain to Indians.Besides the 500 Aim 120 are paid for by Pakistan tax payer's money.

 

[air marshal]

PAF to get F-16s with tough stipulations
June 14, 2010

ISLAMABAD: Despite being a key ally in the war against terrorism in which Pakistan have rendered innumerable sacrifices, the United States is extending military assistance to Islamabad under strict conditions and stipulations, reflecting the nature of relations between the two countries.

According to sources, Washington will deliver 18 F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) by the end of this month under a series of conditions including an assurance from Pakistan that aircraft would not be used in any conflict with India.

During last week’s strategic dialogue between India and the US, the Indian leaders had conveyed to their counterparts in Washington their concerns over the US military assistance to Pakistan. Besides assuring Indian side, Washington for the first time came out open to state that it was taking steps to ensure that its military aid to Pakistan would not be used against India.

Sources said the US Air Force engineers would accompany the delivery of the F-16s and supervise not only the airbase but also the operations to be carried out by the PAF against Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Though the PAF pilots will fly the jets, the logistics, management and control is stated to remain with the US engineers.

Sources said the Block 50/52 Model F-16 jets equipped with latest missiles would land at Shahbaz Airbase in Jacoabad. It is said that around US$500 million were spent to upgrade the airbase to make it conducive to the new F-16s.

PAF to get F-16s with tough stipulations | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

 

[Sapper]

Dear,

These restrictions are called End Use Monitoring (EUM/EUMA) provisions, for which US arms deals are infamous. We have many of our Maritime and Airborne fleet already using the same EUMs as the F16s we are getting now. Many ships of our Navy fleet, P3Cs, Harpoons, F16s, C130s and AH-1 Cobras already come under the same EUM that we are facing once again.

The solution is to adhere to these restrictions for the most part, and double up these equipments with EUM free acquisition of Ships, Atlantiques/Erieye/ZDK03, Exocet, JF17/Mirage/FC20, Y12 etc to use in places where these restrictions could be violated in peace time.

Of course, all bets are off once survival is at stake, and in those times, no will have the time, nor the inclination to check whether we are not adhering to provisions stated in chapter 4, paragraph 3, article 7.

We must continue to increase purchase of EUM free arms, and from nations who are famous for non EUM munition like France, Russia, China, Brazil, South Africa and the likes. But this is not enough reason to hold off our defense requirements to something we need in our fleet YESTERDAY, if we are hold off against the humongous IAF acquisitions.

For further study, read these reports of EUMs for Indian acquisition of US weapons.
India Balks at C-130, P-8 Restrictions - Defense News
Factsheet on U.S-India accord on end-use monitoring - Windows Live

Note: This is not to start India Vs Pakistan flame war, just to inform people that this is regular terms and condition for US arms sales, and every war we have fought till now has been with the same weapons.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[M8R]

Dear,

These restrictions are called End Use Monitoring (EUM/EUMA) provisions, for which US arms deals are infamous. We have many of our Maritime and Airborne fleet already using the same EUMs as the F16s we are getting now. Many ships of our Navy fleet, P3Cs, Harpoons, F16s, C130s and AH-1 Cobras already come under the same EUM that we are facing once again.

The solution is to adhere to these restrictions for the most part, and double up these equipments with EUM free acquisition of Ships, Atlantiques/Erieye/ZDK03, Exocet, JF17/Mirage/FC20, Y12 etc to use in places where these restrictions could be violated in peace time.

Of course, all bets are off once survival is at stake, and in those times, no will have the time, nor the inclination to check whether we are not adhering to provisions stated in chapter 4, paragraph 3, article 7.

We must continue to increase purchase of EUM free arms, and from nations who are famous for non EUM munition like France, Russia, China, Brazil, South Africa and the likes. But this is not enough reason to hold off our defense requirements to something we need in our fleet YESTERDAY, if we are hold off against the humongous IAF acquisitions.

For further study read these reports of EUMs for Indian acquisition of US weapons.
India Balks at C-130, P-8 Restrictions - Defense News
Factsheet on U.S-India accord on end-use monitoring - Windows Live

Note: This is not to start India Vs Pakistan flame war, just to inform people that this is regular terms and condition for US arms sales, and every war we have fought till now has been with the same weapons.

Regards,
Sapper

Absolutely - Our Media is our biggest enemy.Now trying to bash this deal.Pakistan should buy as much as weapons possible from US.Once war comes US will do nothing unless we go to war with NATO.The EULA's was there in 1965 and 71 too but once war started we used all planes at our disposal (at the same time got hard sanctions from US).Besides our sanctioned birds were used to escort Nukes and fly Cap's during Kargil.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i have never heard of an arms deal where the supplier asks that their weapons not be used in certain conflicts

 

[was]

so i hope these conditions will be applied on india to if they choose f 16 or f18 in their mrca.or are these conditions only for us.
our so called ally is arming our enemy to the teeth.

 

[farhan_9909]

greement signed in March 2010 with United States for an additional 14 F-16s, variant unconfirmed, to be delivered by December 2010.[
===
List of aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

as per wiki we wil get more 14 f-16 by 2010 dec

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is because of our prior history of usage that such a clause is being enforced. Basically our weapons will have a purely defencive form and function.

Now why are we getting these weapons---because the u s also knows that we are way behind---so in order to create balance and parity in the region for the sake of stability, we are getting what is coming in.

None of these weapons and operating systems ,changes the balance of power----well I shouldn't put it like that---because it gives pakistan a lot more teeth and defencive strike capability as compared to when we didnot have that equipment.

 

[deckingraj]

so i hope these conditions will be applied on india to if they choose f 16 or f18 in their mrca.or are these conditions only for us.
our so called ally is arming our enemy to the teeth.

Well i have not heard on any restrictions on India.....The only restrictions are on sharing it with others or reverse copying...Though Mastan Khan has explained it beautifully but $10 Billion(and more) have lot of power....Not to forget these block 52 are part of US Aid to Pakistan....So hard cash vs Aid and no surprise parameters are different....but in the end if there is any conflict then these birds will fly to defeat the enemy...Post war scenarios will not hinder operations during war....

 

[SMC]

Well i have not heard on any restrictions on India.....The only restrictions are on sharing it with others or reverse copying...Though Mastan Khan has explained it beautifully but $10 Billion(and more) have lot of power....Not to forget these block 52 are part of US Aid to Pakistan....So hard cash vs Aid and no surprise parameters are different....but in the end if there is any conflict then these birds will fly to defeat the enemy...Post war scenarios will not hinder operations during war....

Not aid at all. Our own money.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Well i have not heard on any restrictions on India.....The only restrictions are on sharing it with others or reverse copying...Though Mastan Khan has explained it beautifully but $10 Billion(and more) have lot of power....Not to forget these block 52 are part of US Aid to Pakistan....So hard cash vs Aid and no surprise parameters are different....but in the end if there is any conflict then these birds will fly to defeat the enemy...Post war scenarios will not hinder operations during war....

Ur brainless, how many times each Indian would be explained that Pakistan paid 5+ billion $ for these new F-16's and upgradations of old ones

Major U.S. Arms Sales and Grants to Pakistan Since 2001

Major post-2001 defense supplies provided, or soon to be provided, under FMF include:

! eight P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft and their refurbishment (valued at $474 million);
! about 5,250 TOW anti-armor missiles ($186 million; 2,007 delivered);
! more than 5,600 military radio sets ($163 million);
! six AN/TPS-77 surveillance radars ($100 million);
! six C-130E transport aircraft and their refurbishment ($76 million);
! five refurbished SH-2I Super Seasprite maritime helicopters granted under EDA ($67 million);
! one ex-Oliver Hazard Perry class missile frigate via EDA ($65 million);
! 20 AH-1F Cobra attack helicopters via EDA ($48 million, 12 refurbished and delivered); and
! 121 refurbished TOW missile launchers ($25 million).

Supplies paid for with a mix of Pakistani national funds and FMF include:
! up to 60 Mid-Life Update kits for F-16A/B combat aircraft (valued at $891 million, with $477 million of this in FMF, Pakistan currently plans to purchase 35 such kits); and
! 115 M-109 self-propelled howitzers ($87 million, with $53 million in FMF).
Notable items paid or to be paid for entirely with Pakistani national funds include:
! 18 new F-16C/D Block 50/52 combat aircraft (valued at $1.43 billion; none delivered to date);
! F-16 armaments including 500 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; 1,450 2,000-pound bombs; 500 JDAM Tail Kits for gravity bombs; and 1,600 Enhanced Paveway laser-guided kits, also for gravity bombs ($629 million);
! 100 Harpoon anti-ship missiles ($298 million);
! 500 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles ($95 million); and
! six Phalanx Close-In Weapons System naval guns ($80 million).

While the Pentagon notified Congress on the possible transfer to Pakistan of three P-3B aircraft as EDA grants that would be modified to carry the E-2C Hawkeye airborne early warning suite in a deal worth up to $855 million, this effort has not progressed beyond the notification stage. Other major EDA grantssince 2001 include 14 F-16A/B combat aircraft and 39 T-37 military trainer jets. Under Coalition
Support Funds (part of the Pentagon budget), Pakistan has received 26 Bell 412 utility helicopters, along with related parts and maintenance, valued at $235 million. Finally, under 1206, Frontier Corps, and Pakistan Counterinsurgency Capability Fund authorities, the United States has provided helicopter spare parts, various night vision devices, radios, body armor, helmets, first aid kits, litters, and large quantities of other individual soldier equipment.

Source

I quoted the source also, plz reply if u have sensable and reasonable answer else stop flaming. Pak purchased more then 5 Billion +.$ weapons including F-16's......not only that weapons also purchased from France, China ,Sweden Brazil etc......that also have huge cost.

Reply with responsibilitiy and logicaly