Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Windjammer]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=352191536367257

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

ACE of PAF

'Ready for some G's'

The important word here is TRAINING. As the saying goes,"Pulling Gs makes you good at pulling Gs". It has been repeatedly observed that a long layoff from pulling Gs reduces one's ability to tolerate that stress. Frequent exposure to high, sustained Gs probably causes increased reactivity in the cardiovascular system or perhaps frequent exposure begets better straining technique

 

[Silicon0000]

3 of Sq. of old vipers plus V upgrade for new and existing ............... just kidding

 

[Scorpiooo]

What will remain difference in capabilities of F16 that is New standard Block 70/72 and upgraded to V standard ? Any expert

 

[iLION12345_1]

What will remain difference in capabilities of F16 that is New standard Block 70/72 and upgraded to V standard ? Any expert

Block 70/72 is the F-16V. Block 70/72 has a new AESA radar that previous F-16 blocks dont:

It features an AN/APG-83 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, a new mission computer and electronic warfare suite, automated ground collision avoidance system, and various cockpit improvements.

The CFTs, spinal EW/ECCM and extra hardpoint were added in block 52+ that PAF operates, the first AESA was added in Block 60. Block 72 has all of these upgrades + a better radar and other internal upgrades as mentioned above.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Block 70/72 is the F-16V. Block 70/72 has a new AESA radar that previous F-16 blocks dont:

It features an AN/APG-83 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, a new mission computer and electronic warfare suite, automated ground collision avoidance system, and various cockpit improvements.

The CFTs, spinal EW/ECCM and extra hardpoint were added in block 52+ that PAF operates, the first AESA was added in Block 60. Block 72 has all of these upgrades + a better radar and other internal upgrades as mentioned above.

As general info on net block 70/72 and old jet upgraded to V standard have same capabilities. My question its that in detail is they are equal

 

[iLION12345_1]

As general info on net block 70/72 and old jet upgraded to V standard have same capabilities. My question its that in detail is they are equal

Oh my bad, I didn’t properly understand your question the first time.

It depends, if a country is asking for its F-16s to be upgraded to “Block 70/72 standard” then it’s getting all of the upgrades in the package, there should be no noticeable difference in the two apart from maybe airframe life (which too can be extended with structural upgrade packages)

But usually countries don’t do that, they pick and chose the upgrades they want based on requirements and
cost. For example when Pakistan got its F-16s upgraded it got the Block 52+ Radar, avionics and structural upgrades but didn’t opt for inclusion of CFT, Spinal EW, Extra hardpoint etc, probably due to cost-usefulness ratio.

The more upgrades you want the more you’re paying, upgrading say an F-16 block 15 to block 70/72 will cost quite a bit since they’d basically need to modify the airframe from the ground up, while applying the same upgrade to block 52+ will cost a lot less because there’s little changes to the airframe and mainly only to avionics.

But to basically answer your question; No, there shouldn’t be any noticeable difference between an older model upgraded to Block 72 and a new block 72.

This makes me wonder wether PAF plans to upgrade its F-16s further someday, as in AESA radars and such, Turkey is making their own and putting them in their F-16s, if the US allows, that would be a very nice upgrade. CFTs and such can be added too, all depends on US permission.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Oh my bad, I didn’t properly understand your question the first time.

It depends, if a country is asking for its F-16s to be upgraded to “Block 70/72 standard” then it’s getting all of the upgrades in the package, there should be no noticeable difference in the two apart from maybe airframe life (which too can be extended with structural upgrade packages)

But usually countries don’t do that, they pick and chose the upgrades they want based on requirements and
cost. For example when Pakistan got its F-16s upgraded it got the Block 52+ Radar, avionics and structural upgrades but didn’t opt for inclusion of CFT, Spinal EW, Extra hardpoint etc, probably due to cost-usefulness ratio.

The more upgrades you want the more you’re paying, upgrading say an F-16 block 15 to block 70/72 will cost quite a bit since they’d basically need to modify the airframe from the ground up, while applying the same upgrade to block 52+ will cost a lot less because there’s little changes to the airframe and mainly only to avionics.

But to basically answer your question; No, there shouldn’t be any noticeable difference between an older model upgraded to Block 72 and a new block 72.

This makes me wonder wether PAF plans to upgrade its F-16s further someday, as in AESA radars and such, Turkey is making their own and putting them in their F-16s, if the US allows, that would be a very nice upgrade. CFTs and such can be added too, all depends on US permission.

Thanks sir for detail answers. In short they are almost equal if talk about standard features.

Yes for PAF it can be big boost if American allow TAI to upgrade our f16s in future, but its very unlikely the case by considering T129 deal situation..

PAF will not take risk of sending its existing jets to America keeping factor of stucking them there (Americans are good in it, playing such games)


Best option for PAF is to get EDA and 3rd party jets then try to upgrade to V standard (offcouse if can afford) by utilizing Afghanistan card

 

[iLION12345_1]

Thanks sir for detail answers. In short they are almost equal if talk about standard features.

Yes for PAF it can be big boost if American allow TAI to upgrade our f16s in future, but its very unlikely the case by considering T129 deal situation..

PAF will not take risk of sending its existing jets to America keeping factor of stucking them there (Americans are good in it, playing such games)


Best option for PAF is to get EDA and 3rd party jets then try to upgrade to V standard (offcouse if can afford) by utilizing Afghanistan card

The Americans are certainly not that anti-Pakistan at the moment to do that, people are overestimating that because of recent events, it would be illegal for them to attempt such a thing. Regardless, Pakistan will only ever send them to TAI because it’s cheaper, if they need help from OEM, then LM is committed to take care of PAF F-16s regardless of what US says (apart from total sanctions like on Iran, which are unlikely).

3rd party jets require just as much US permission as new ones. The V standard upgrades would have to be bought from the US first. Getting US to agree to just let Turkey upgrade them with the Turkish radar or whatever US is willing to give/Turkey can make is much easier (Turkey can make most of the stuff for F-16).

 

[KaiserX]

I wouldnt be surprised if their is a small chance that the PAF acquires 18-36 F16vs as well and upgrades for the existing fleet, but that would really be dependant on how much IK can convince Biden of Pakistans importance.

Dont forget Biden was the key architect of the Military/Economic AID packages to the US during his time in the senate. He is very open and receptive to Pakistan interests. Right now the US is doing an impartial review of ties with Pakistan (Biden himself ordered this impartial view because he felt he would be bias pro-pakistan). I doubt the review being "impartial" would result in the same summary = US realizing it is best to accomadate Pakistan and compete against China to gain leverage rather than isolate Pakistan and give it up to China.

As of late we have seen the US pushing Pakistans interest when it comes to FATF, terrorism in Afghanistan, refugee spillover into Pakistan, denying the use of pakistani bases, etc...

In such situation I am hoping Pakistan puts its interest first and gets benefit from BOTH THE US & CHINA. Dont forget Pakistan served as a bridge for US-China ties which have resulted in the rise of China today. Pakistan can once again become a major mediator for both sides.

 

[Scorpiooo]

The Americans are certainly not that anti-Pakistan at the moment to do that, people are overestimating that because of recent events, it would be illegal for them to attempt such a thing. Regardless, Pakistan will only ever send them to TAI because it’s cheaper, if they need help from OEM, then LM is committed to take care of PAF F-16s regardless of what US says (apart from total sanctions like on Iran, which are unlikely).

3rd party jets require just as much US permission as new ones. The V standard upgrades would have to be bought from the US first. Getting US to agree to just let Turkey upgrade them with the Turkish radar or whatever US is willing to give/Turkey can make is much easier (Turkey can make most of the stuff for F-16).

If we can afford and able to get Americans permission and kits, TAI can do job very well for us , even we can get 3rd party jets and involve them to upgrade them for us

 

[KaiserX]

PAF getting J10CE actually puts pressure on the americans and shows them that Pakistan has access to the latest AESA tech and longer range BVRs than even the AIM-120D. The US violating strategic military deals will simply not cut it anymore nor affect Pakistan in any way because Pakistan will be able to get the same tech from China at a cheaper rate.

If anything the US has more incentive now that its gone from Afghanistan to have Pakistan take the lead in managing the security situation in Afghanistan esp when Pakistan is on the front line and is going to be affected a lot more and first before the US homeland. There is a great degree of strategic/security divergence.

In that case it would be favorable for the US to provide the latest F16Vs/upgrade kits and the AH-1Zs that were ordered many years ago. I see right now being a huge opportunity for US/Pakistan strategic ties improving signicantly based upon Pakistan leverage in Afghanistan/China and India's weaknesses.