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Pakistan Deploys Anti-Aircraft Missiles System in FATA to Prevent NATO Attacks Pakis

Pakistan is a country of 180 million buddy not a welfare or charity organization. Lolzzz. I wonder how some people make such dumb comments. :)

You should think about it when your Govt begging for aids, trade benefits, soft loans from all over the world.
 
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^^not a good idea,try firing a single SAM at their drones,within hours NATO's SEAD mission's will suppress all of ur SAM's,this news is only good for domestic consumption,meanwhile had the U.S drone strikes stopped

What do you think how many SAMS we actually have? 40 or 50 maybe? For your info, only MANPADS number in thousands! let alone others. Yanks are in a big mess in Afghanistan now and they need a face saving exit big time and last thing they want is to have an angry Pakistan. I have never seen an official apology by US to Pakistan in my life. This shows they don't have the balls to create any further mis adventure in Pakistan.
 
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plz tell me where were these Jihadis before 2001 and what arm did they cause us before 2001??

That time these jehadis were being grown up and were busy making mayhem to all over the world.Now they started biting their own lord itself.
 
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It will be good for pakistan, if they stop all aids and loans, coz we know that in pakistan, people contest for govt, so they corrupt all money, we know that all this money is not spend on pakistan, but politicians eat it.

If u wouldn't get them ur army can't even enter SW.Even a single bullet ur army spend for TTP to make your safe, are being reimbursed by US.You should give thanks to US every time a TTP gets killed.
 
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the only winning party will be the enemies of Pakistan and US

I hope the things dont go that far

although both the taliban, Nothern alliance and India will love to see a clash between US and Pakistan which would result in heavy losses for Pakistan
much to the amusment of Taliban.

thats it :smitten: "thatz is call a bhal muje maar"
 
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If u wouldn't get them ur army can't even enter SW.Even a single bullet ur army spend for TTP to make your safe, are being reimbursed by US.You should give thanks to US every time a TTP gets killed.

you should also thanks of us and nawaz shareef at kargal war otherwise your whole army now in Ganga jamna:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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No disrespect but r u suggesting we keep quiet everytime some country attacks inside our airspace, r we a sovereign country or just a country on paper, we have rights, its our armies job to protect us from all threats local and foreign, be it even china or the US

Let me just clarify,

Quotes from the Armed forces

I will quote a response from ACM Rao Qamer Suleman. When asked by media reporters about dealing with the American drone attacks & PAF’s ability to take them down he responded.

“Our defence forces definitely have the capability to shoot these drones down. But when we do. Next time they might come with fighter escort. Engaging them will mean an air war. And this is something that the government has to decide if the state of Pakistan should to declare a war with USA. If the government decides then we will engage them”.

IGFC Gen Tariq was asked the similar question in a different occasion on his reaction to the drone attacks to which he said more or less the same thing.

“I, as a soldier of Pakistan army don’t like that someone else coming in my country engaging targets. We can shoot them down but that decision has to come from the government of Pakistan.”

How we feel

I know there were some emotional responses to my original post. Let me elaborate if that was not clear before. I explained it on other thread “re- US apology” I will say again.

No soldier or civilian “likes” to see and stand quietly while US drones fire hellfire missiles where the kill ratio is 1 terrorist out of 10 deaths. The targeted bombardment on the Pakistani check posts is even more severe because it raises a lot of emotions & brings the whole “partnership” claim into question. That’s why Pak interior minister was very right in saying “we have to decide if we are friends or enemies”. The continued NATO actions don’t help with the notion of “partnership/ allies”.

Investigation & future

I think the initial investigations are done and they clearly show that NATO forces were to blame for the attack. They were more trigger happy rather than going through a proper protocol and rules of engagement. (that’s what distinguishes a horde of terrorists and a world class professional army).

Mind you, NATO in general and US in particular is not very generous in apologising when it comes to such situations no matter how “damning” the evidence is. So this apology should be taken at its face value. The only take away is that ISAF shows equal or more enthusiasm in “perusing” and “engaging” the targets “within” Afghanistan for which it is mandated to operate than waiting for the terrorists to “escape” into Pakistan and repeat such incidents.

As a civilian I find it hard to believe that the Pakistani check posts are not clearly marked on the NATO interactive and conventional maps of the area. I refuse to accept that a well established check post with a Pakistani flag flying can be confused with a bunch of runaway terrorists hiding behind rocks”
Following picture is just for illustration about what I mean. I am sure many of you have seen proper built up posts with flags flying on roof tops.

http://pakistankakhudahafiz.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/1.jpg?w=450

if ( a big IF) ever the video or audio footage of that firing incident by NATO is made public I am sure there will be something very incriminating. I cant help my self but to think that criminal charges should be brought up against them. Karan challenged me on the other hand that Pakistani troops must have said something like “lets teach them a lesson” before they got blown up by missiles. But I beg to differ because our troops don’t engage without orders. Specially firing with rifles at the attack choppers that are immune to sustained 23mm cannon fire is not something that can be attributed to the intent of teaching a lesson.

By the way shooting at copters is the version of NATO pilots. What really happened is unknown. When these pilots can’t recognise a distress flair, confuse orange panels and video cameras with rocket launchers then what hope did soldiers of that ill fated check post had. (I am quoting “friendly” & civilian deaths at the hands of US pilots in the past, yes drawing a parallel with Iraq. Will quote a reaction of a Canadian officer after the deaths of Canadian soldiers who died in Afghanistan at the hands of US pilots who said that it looked like the “US pilot was too much impressed with Top Gun movie”) it might appear that I am contradicting my earlier argument about marked/ known Pakistani posts but actually I am questioning the intensions and capabilities of the NATO pilots. moving on…

Blame Game & war of words

Sadly, such is a partnership” of Pakistan and US that whenever there is a setback to NATO forces in Afghanistan or attack on Pakistani troops by ISAF. It shortly follows with “revelations” and leaks about Pakistan’s “double game”. Some unknown Taliban “commander” will accuse ISI of organising attacks against NATO troops. The post dated video footage of Pakistan army’s summary executions (innocent timing coincidence?). Followed by comments from “experts” specially handpicked by the western media who are known to have special grudge against Pakistan.

Once the story dies down it is followed by a scripted and soulless comment by US that how much importance they give to Pakistan in the war against terror. Until another such incident plays out.

Covert operations & drones
One of the most favourite catch phrase of anti-Pakistan commentators is that Pakistan is not doing enough, is being selective, the ISI is supporting/ forcing Taliban to attack NATO troops etc.
One should then ask what are those stooges doing in tribal areas known as US private contractors or special forces? Why don’t they “DO ENOUGH” that doesn’t involve killing civilians. Why don’t the operators of drones make “enough” effort to kill more terrorist instead of killing civilians? There is nothing special about them is it? Why not they for once be blamed? Why does the American tax payer has to pay for their continued failure and Pakistanis with their lives?

Afghan Private contractors
BBC News - Afghan security contractors 'fund Taliban'
While I write these comments. The stories of US private contractors is out who are funding Taliban. What more is there to say? Oh wait northern alliance will have a comment ready to blame ISI yea?

It is so much frustrating and comically infuriating that I sometimes feel like slapping the northern alliance leadership, likes of Abdullah Abdullah and Gen Fahim so hard and as many times on their faces as much they have been blaming ISI from 2000 to date for every failure in governing post Taliban Afghanistan. Their treachery, their incompetence, their corruption and mind boggling stubborn stupidity is horrifying for everyone who is unfortunate to deal with them directly or indirectly. I do sometimes feel sorry for Americans who have to deal with these Afghan Tajiks and Uzbeks who have a legendary reputation for their duality & deceit. US defeat in Afghanistan will have more to do with these cunning characters than the Taliban or ISI bogeyman

Our options

Work together with NATO forces for better communication & coordination in combating terrorists who operate along both sides of the border. To avoid any unintentional engagement.

“Hot pursuit” & rules of engagement should be clearly spelt out. Halting at the borders and informing Pakistan to engage the terrorists. If Pakistani forces fail to do so then NATO has the right to complain.

If the NATO remains ambiguous or obnoxious then Pakistan should raise the issue in UN (for all its worth)
Deploy anti aircraft batteries, fly CAP missions & put the NATO supply to complete halt.
Pakistan government makes a clear policy and instructs if armed forces accordingly.
The time of getting loans written off, Swiss accounts & off shore luxury properties is over.

Possible Outcomes/ Escalation

When the next such incident does happen. The Government has to make the call. It cant be half hearted. Our forces will do what they are trained to do. Our soldiers don’t have the luxury of suing the government for “post traumatic stress” like in UK and US. They will do what they can, given what resources they have. The outcome and political fallout is the worry of the government.

I find it really hard to believe that having a copter or drone shot down, the NATO forces wont retaliate. It will be the test of both US and Pakistan military and civilian leadership to resolve the crises. The real test will be how successful both are not to resemble like two opposing drug cartels or Taliban.

But the real war will be on the media and international forum. Where Pakistan has to sell its side of story with the facts and how a “partner” in “war on terror” became a target itself.

In the end, the international relations among nations, especially when one is very weak are never based on fairness or justice. Its all about how much a stronger nation can squeeze out the other nation. Its all about self interests. Pakistan can only bank on itself with internal unity and then turning the silent or neutral spectators into possible allies who would actively object and oppose US aggression on Pakistan. International support will mainly depend on how well Pakistani foreign office and media plays the media war and conveys its view point to the rest of the world.

Bottom Line
Both countries behave & work like civilised nations and avoid any filamentary remarks that could fan the hatred and lead to an open conflict.

I will finish my post with a famous quote “strife is the sign of lesser intelligence” its down to US (mostly) and Pakistani (to some extent) leadership to decide how much or less they intent to resemble with their primate/ ape cousins.
 
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It's night combat. The helicopter gunner and pilots are using thermal imaging in very difficult and confused terrain. There are tracers from small-arms fire heading their way... from who, we don't know, probably insurgents, possibly near the outpost. The pilot and gunner are very tense. For whatever reason, they decided the outpost was a threat and fired, with tragic consequences.

Do people think the pilot and gunner said - "Hey, that's a Pakistani outpost with Pakistani soldiers! Let's light it up! It'll create a gigantic international issue, loss of life, and cost us our careers at a minimum, but what the heck, let's go for it."

It was a tragic mistake. Multiple apologies have been offered. Compensation to the families would be appropriate.

Here are two nations :pakistan: :usflag: trying to form an alliance with a common and dangerous enemy. Pakistan is offering manpower, supply routes, staging areas. The U.S. is offering manpower, equipment, flood aid, economic help. Do we flush this down the toilet now? Is it time to open fire, get down and dirty over a sad friendly-fire episode?
 
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You only bring one side of argument.
This can't be more wrong....

I assumed the worst in my post. If you cannot comprehend that, then that's not my headache.
It is easy to lecture someone however looking at one's own shortcomings is difficult...You are commenting on my comprehension skills yet you clearly failed to see how i justified Pak govt. action of blocking the route and going ahead with deployment of SAMS....They had to do it...however what you don't want to admit is that all this is done due to public pressure and to keep morale of PA intact...

Had the issue been violation of Air-Space then drones attacks are happening even now...no???


The stakes are too high. Pakistan will lose in financial terms. USA will lose in credibility among it's NATO allies.
Exactly....Stakes are two high and is for both sides...in short both sides will keep restraint...However what you don't want to admit is that worst case scenario is that NATO will loose in AF....However if Pak wants to come out of this economic turmoil they need financial assitance even more than what needed in 2001...So give me your honest opinion who have more dependency??? For NATO it is loosing war, for Pak it is loosing another decade or probably even more...

The only way you can come out of economic turmoil and keep a tap on ever increasing gap viz-a-viz your all weather enemy India is through western assistance ...no????

Shooting down one helicopter cannot lead to such a full scale war. That's why Pakistan is warning the NATO in advance. Remember we have given them more chances than ever, and they must, as our allies respect that.
Show me where did i say that shooting down a helicopter will lead to a full-scale war??? What i have said is that it will take tentions to an unprecedented level...The way GOP could not ignore killings of PA presonnnels the same way NATO cannot ignore helicopter if it was bring down in anger...Do you acknowledge that????

Now as per you what would be their response??? Apology for violating the air-space or punitive action???

You are free to come here and post, no one is doing that, maybe that's what makes this forum unique. But at least post something about US-Pak relations, rather than just saying something stupid like..."oh you shoot down one heli and they kick all your mama's ***......"
This thread is not about Pak-US relationship..This thread is simply about Pak decision to deploy SAMS in FATA and its repurcursions....no??? If you want to discuss US-Pak relationship then open a new thread...I believe i am sticking to topic and not flaming by any stretch of imagination....However if you feel strongly about it then please report my post...Mods will do the righful and needful....

b/w you must have read this news

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...-spy-agencys-militant-links-worrying-us-rs-04

Please, we don't want another flame thread.
Neither do i, however if you are serious about what you said then you should know that whenever you use derogatory words against someone you are asking for nothing but flame...I have been around here for quite sometime and always try to keep within limits...

My advice challenge my logic and prove me wrong, rather then going personal...i have tried my best to ignore the provocations and keep the discussion civil.....hoping for pay back in same token....
 
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It's night combat. The helicopter gunner and pilots are using thermal imaging in very difficult and confused terrain. There are tracers from small-arms fire heading their way... from who, we don't know, probably insurgents, possibly near the outpost. The pilot and gunner are very tense. For whatever reason, they decided the outpost was a threat and fired, with tragic consequences.

Do people think the pilot and gunner said - "Hey, that's a Pakistani outpost with Pakistani soldiers! Let's light it up! It'll create a gigantic international issue, loss of life, and cost us our careers at a minimum, but what the heck, let's go for it."

It was a tragic mistake. Multiple apologies have been offered. Compensation to the families would be appropriate.

Here are two nations :pakistan: :usflag: trying to form an alliance with a common and dangerous enemy. Pakistan is offering manpower, supply routes, staging areas. The U.S. is offering manpower, equipment, flood aid, economic help. Do we flush this down the toilet now? Is it time to open fire, get down and dirty over a sad friendly-fire episode?


It was not a night combat, Pictures and Videos tell its day light....
i was not with them so cant tell them what they were talking.....:)

but dont you think all the posts on both side of the border known and marked and even communicated before engaged?????

:pakistan::usflag:
 
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Chogy: Both countries will move forward from this incident surely. :)

I certainly hope so. I feel horribly for the soldiers who died. We bring coffins back to the U.S. as well. I'm simply saddened by the screams for vengeance and blood rather than reconciliation and moving forward.
 
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It was not a night combat, Pictures and Videos tell its day light....
i was not with them so cant tell them what they were talking.....:)

but dont you think all the posts on both side of the border known and marked and even communicated before engaged?????

:pakistan::usflag:

I'm sorry, I thought it was a night engagement. Whoops.

I've mentioned in a prior post that communication between NATO and Pakistan needs to be much better refined for clashes in the border region. But I am confident that the engagement was a mistake, not an intentional attack on Pakistani forces. The latter would be insane. Why would they do that? They know who their allies are in the region.
 
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It's night combat. The helicopter gunner and pilots are using thermal imaging in very difficult and confused terrain. There are tracers from small-arms fire heading their way... from who, we don't know, probably insurgents, possibly near the outpost. The pilot and gunner are very tense. For whatever reason, they decided the outpost was a threat and fired, with tragic consequences.

Do people think the pilot and gunner said - "Hey, that's a Pakistani outpost with Pakistani soldiers! Let's light it up! It'll create a gigantic international issue, loss of life, and cost us our careers at a minimum, but what the heck, let's go for it."

It was a tragic mistake. Multiple apologies have been offered. Compensation to the families would be appropriate.

Here are two nations :pakistan: :usflag: trying to form an alliance with a common and dangerous enemy. Pakistan is offering manpower, supply routes, staging areas. The U.S. is offering manpower, equipment, flood aid, economic help. Do we flush this down the toilet now? Is it time to open fire, get down and dirty over a sad friendly-fire episode?

While that would be ideal, you must remember that, while not being taliban sympathizers, Pakistanis in general have very negative views of America. The drone strikes aren't helping correct that...

Personally put, I would like the end the relationship and involvements between the two countries because we have lost a lot. Way too much.

Also, it just shows that NATO doesn't respect (yes, we still have some of that) our sovereignty. Killing soldiers was accidental, but entering Pakistan wasn't.
 
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I certainly hope so. I feel horribly for the soldiers who died. We bring coffins back to the U.S. as well. I'm simply saddened by the screams for vengeance and blood rather than reconciliation and moving forward.

I hear you loud and clear.

If you are saddened, think of my position and what I am feeling, not only at this incident, but the whole situation in general.

All interested and intelligent people on both sides must do whatever they can to ensure that the voices of reason continue to prevail.
 
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