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Pakistan demands apology over drone strike

"...so long as Pakistan is willing to carry out the same actions that the US wants carried out with the drones..."

Nek Mohammad was killed weeks after you'd concluded an unsuccessful peace accord with an enemy. You had your eyeball-to-eyeball chance to either kill or sway him and you failed. That didn't stop the incessant chattering by your commanders to have their cake and eat it too.

No apologies for tiring of you removing these enemies from your lands. Too many suffer to your west because of them while awaiting patiently your actions. Miram Shah is a major P.A. cantonment area. It's also the long home of Jalaluddin and Sirajuddin Haqqani. Your inaction speak louder than any words.

We'll defend our troops, efforts and the afghan people as best we reasonably can. This isn't an easy conflict. Pakistani sanctuary makes it far harder, though, than need be. That view is a consistent message remaining unchanged virtually from the beginning. No waffling there by Washington.

'Nuff said.
 
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Technical arguments really do not help us see the issues as clearly as they might in other situations - to suggest that the pliticians and Zardari and whatever run the country, does not apply to foreign policy as it relates to the US -- recall how things worked when the PPP government tried to bring the ISI under civilian leadership in the MoI.

The "deal" worked out in Oman was between uniformed personnel from the US and Pakistan, not politicians - the deal itself was facilitated by Saudi money and Pakistani politicians, in particular the Arabic speaking brothers Sharifoffs.

Some suggest that this mean the entire system is corrupt, perhaps it does, but if we can be more specific, it means the army, after all, Kiyani and DG Operations represented Pakistan at these "negotiations" in Oman, is above criticism - this is a rather weak positon, because as we have said earlier, Kiyani and DG operations represented Pakisgtan, not the Ministry of Foreign/External affairs or MoI, or Majlis, or political parties.
 
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The Qadri Affect

03/12/2011

Economistan - Economic Analysis Think Tank

Picture: Civil disobedience at the protests of the Republican National Convention, New York City.

Picture taken by Jonathan Mcintosh, 2004.

It was the 4th of January when Malik Mumtaz Qadri opened fire and killed a powerful governor Salman Taseer of the most populous province of Pakistan. He killed him to protest against the controversial blasphemy laws of which the late governor was very vocal in publicly condemning. The reaction to the murder amongst the masses in Pakistan was rather surprising. People were seen distributing sweets in the streets and not a shot was fired to condemn the murder of Salman Taseer, a member of the popular Pakistan Peoples Party. This is in big contrast to the murder of Benazir Bhutto also a member of Pakistan Peoples Party and an ex-Prime Minister of Pakistan. The furor over the murder of Benazir Bhutto was evident from the street protests that ensued. The incident probably shows that the blasphemy law based on the religious principle of observing respect for the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is central to the lives of Pakistanis and cuts across all the sectarian boundaries of Islam. To speak against is to condemn oneself to the wrath of 99 percent of the Muslims living in Pakistan.

The images of an ordinary guard killing the powerful governor of Punjab reverberated through all the major media outlets of the world (the small village we call our home). These images probably incensed the imagination of oppressed people all over the world from Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Jordan, Libya, Bahrain, America and many more countries where oppression of different sorts prevail. So much so that when Mohamed Bouazizi of Tunisia (a street vendor who set himself on fire to condemn the government repression) died incidentally on the same day when Qadri shot dead the Pakistani Governor, i.e. 4th Jan, 2011, the global cocktail of the Qadri media coverage and the anger over the death of Bouazizi sparked a revolution that became the mother of all revolutions in the Middle East and possibly beyond whose full effects have yet to be realized.

On 8th of January, 2011 American congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was a victim of shooting which was reported to be an assassination attempt on her. The incident left six people dead along with many wounded till the attacker was overwhelmed by a few people attending the event. Jared Lee Loughner was charged with the killing. It is reported that Loughner did not have enough faith in the United States government and so called New World Order and believed in many conspiracy theories surrounding 911 events. Loughner was also a heavy drug user. The killing sparked many comments on facebook and other newspaper websites which suggested there might be a parallel between the Qadri shooting of the governor and the Loughner shooting of the American congresswoman. The US Congress joint session that followed showed a rare act of solidarity amongst the Republicans and the Democrats where members from both the parties sat side by side to show that they were one during the State of the Union address of the US President. This event could possibly pass a message that the US government run by two parties were in affect one party as the aftermath to the assassination attempt depicted. It also shows that the reaction to this “One Party System” in the US is growing and there might be a hint of a revolution in the US with the anti-war protestors, the Julian Assaunges, the Lakota secessionists, the oppressed minorities like the Blacks, Hispanics and persecuted religious (Peter King’s public commissions are a case in point) and other racial minorities slowly gathering steam.

The ensuing revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Jordan, Bahrain etc. show a resolute vote of no confidence in the US policies in the region and the US planted dictators in the Middle East which the US wanted to keep in power till the last possible breath of the ailing regimes. None more important than the brutal regime of Hosni Mubarak which the US was not ready to divorce at any cost but eventually had to when the Egyptian people gave the US no option but to accept the writing on the wall. Calls for Mubarak to step down were not heard from the US capital, only ones for the regime to hold early elections and listen to the needs of its people. The silence from the US in case of Mubarak was deafening but the Egyptians won in the end after enduring a brutal onslaught from pro-Mubarak paid mercenaries. The revolutions in the Middle East are a slap in the face of the US policies in the region and do not bode well for the US in the future. Before long the unequal sharing of wealth in the US where the powerful, rich and strong Jewish lobby becomes richer by the day while other religious and racial minorities become proportionately poor might be the final straw for the American Revolution.
 
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Technical arguments really do not help us see the issues as clearly as they might in other situations - to suggest that the pliticians and Zardari and whatever run the country, does not apply to foreign policy as it relates to the US -- recall how things worked when the PPP government tried to bring the ISI under civilian leadership in the MoI.

The "deal" worked out in Oman was between uniformed personnel from the US and Pakistan, not politicians - the deal itself was facilitated by Saudi money and Pakistani politicians, in particular the Arabic speaking brothers Sharifoffs.

Some suggest that this mean the entire system is corrupt, perhaps it does, but if we can be more specific, it means the army, after all, Kiyani and DG Operations represented Pakistan at these "negotiations" in Oman, is above criticism - this is a rather weak positon, because as we have said earlier, Kiyani and DG operations represented Pakisgtan, not the Ministry of Foreign/External affairs or MoI.
It does not matter what happened at the meeting in Oman. The PPP had clearly indicated by then, through the firing of Qureshi (his revelations of what the senior PPP leadership wanted to do), the dithering over immunity and the statements by Fauzia Wahab, that it was in favor of releasing Davis.

Did the PPP and/or PML-N come out at any time to inform the public that they were being coerced by the Army to release Davis? Why not? The leadership of these parties has never shied away from bashing the Army in the media before. Why let the Army get away with something like this, when it would reduce Army influence and strengthen the position of the PPP especially domestically.

All of the above points to the PPP and PML-N supporting the release of Davis, and the Army supporting their decision.

Pakistanis need to hold their elected representatives for being spineless, and the Army for not following the orders of their elected representatives. In the Davis case at least the Army is clearly not guilty of disobeying the civilian government.
 
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"...so long as Pakistan is willing to carry out the same actions that the US wants carried out with the drones..."

Nek Mohammad was killed weeks after you'd concluded an unsuccessful peace accord with an enemy. You had your eyeball-to-eyeball chance to either kill or sway him and you failed. That didn't stop the incessant chattering by your commanders to have their cake and eat it too.

No apologies for tiring of you removing these enemies from your lands. Too many suffer to your west because of them while awaiting patiently your actions. Miram Shah is a major P.A. cantonment area. It's also the long home of Jalaluddin and Sirajuddin Haqqani. Your inaction speak louder than any words.

We'll defend our troops, efforts and the afghan people as best we reasonably can. This isn't an easy conflict. Pakistani sanctuary makes it far harder, though, than need be. That view is a consistent message remaining unchanged virtually from the beginning. No waffling there by Washington.

'Nuff said.

Still no rationale provided against Pakistan operating the drones instead of the US, and therefore I will continue to demand that the Pakistan Government either take control of the drones or shoot them down.

And you can accuse Pakistan of providing 'sanctuary' when you arrest/kill and hand over Brahamdegh Bugti, Mullah Fazlullah and Qari Ziaur Rehman.
 
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It does not matter what happened at the meeting in Oman. The PPP had clearly indicated by then, through the firing of Qureshi (his revelations of what the senior PPP leadership wanted to do), the dithering over immunity and the statements by Fauzia Wahab, that it was in favor of releasing Davis.

if the meeting in Omaq (once again, in which not the Ministry of Foreign affirs, not the Ministry of Interior, not any Majlis committee, not any political party and not any politicians, but Gen. Kiyani and DG operations represented Pakistan in negotiations with US) was meaningless, why was Gen. Kiyani in a useless meeting?? Why was this useless meeting held in a third country? How is it that the Pakistani army chielf "negotiates" Pakistan's security ??

Now, it is absolutely true that the PPP government did not want this Davis problem, it would have been happy to see the back of him -- so how come this did not happen?? Pakistan's security apparatus certainly were embarrassed by this Davis affair, they had much to gain by appearing to not capitulate, did they ensure that Davis would remain in custody till the American learned to say "uncle"?

Are Pakistani politicians, political parties and the electorate that votes them into office, all to blame, but not the army?? reasonable people apparently differ.
 
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"Please eliminate Brahamdegh Bugti who is comfortably housed in Kabul, as indicated through wikileaks, in full knowledge of the US..."

Better check your reading comprehension. You and I've already been through that. We had NO knowledge which explained why we were ASKING Karzai about the matter.

Remember? Sure you do. Stop the duplicitous nonsense before the local audience. Karzai's answer? You remember that too. He's gone. Parts unknown. A better life. A better place. A beachhouse villa in Qatar? Who the fcuk knows?

Don't like it? Take it up with Karzai.

"...as well as Mullah Fazlullah and Qari Ziaur Rehman, who continue to find refuge on the Afghan side of the border and carry out attacks in Bajaur and Mohmand."

Sure. Just as soon as we get done burying those kids we killed in Konar-you know, the province where we're no longer fighting. Too bad it took some kids out looking for wood in the same area where we aren't fighting or killing insurgents anymore :-)rolleyes:) to put paid to that nonsense.

Make sure you keep an eye on the Bajauri side of things because I'm sure they know where it's safe to run when things get hot.

"Irrelevant to my argument calling for the GoP to demand control of drone strikes."

Fully relevant. You'd not struck that target. We've zero cause to believe after ten years that you'd strike any target we consider warranted. We did and killed both taliban and their collaborators.

"I don't want an apology - I wont an end to US operated drone attacks in Pakistan, and I want the GoP to make that decision or start shooting them done if the US refuses."

Well bang away, stud, because you'd best not hold your breath either. Nothing I'd rather see, either, than for you to do so. Best you clear those drones off your own runways first. That'd be a first step. As for who controls those decisions, try applying the letter of the law inside Pakistan all you might wish but it's the boys over at GHQ in Rawalpindi that are calling the foreign policy and nat'l security shots and EVERYBODY save yourself seems to know that.

"Enough is enough when it comes to sanctioning illegal strikes by foreign entities on Pakistan soil..."

Then stop sanctioning foreign afghan taliban armies on your aborgated soil as well.

"...and allowing murderers to get away scot free simply because they are American..."

Now who's being irrelevant? Never heard of legal "blood money" on a state indictment before but it's your law, not our's. We simply honored it by paying a couple of dead thieves' families. Those guys could spend a lifetime of unlimited robbery and theft within Pakistan and not make such a haul.
 
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if the meeting in Omaq (once again, in which not the Ministry of Foreign affirs, not the Ministry of Interior, not any Majlis committee, not any political party and not any politicians, but Gen. Kiyani and DG operations represented Pakistan in negotiations with US) was meaningless, why was Gen. Kiyani in a useless meeting?? Why was this useless meeting held in a third country? How is it that the Pakistani army chielf "negotiates" Pakistan's security ??

Now, it is absolutely true that the PPP government did not want this Davis problem, it would have been happy to see the back of him -- so how come this did not happen?? Pakistan's security apparatus certainly were embarrassed by this Davis affair, they had much to gain by appearing to not capitulate, did they ensure that Davis would remain in custody till the American learned to say "uncle"?

Are Pakistani politicians, political parties and the electorate that votes them into office, all to blame, but not the army?? reasonable people apparently differ.

Hats off to muse for the above post!!!
 
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Pakistan Army, American Army, Pakistan government, American government, ISI, and CIA yeh sab shamil hai inn U.S. drone attacks mein. All these people are working together on attacking FATA with U.S. drones.


The difference between the American establishment and the Pakistani establishment is that the American establishment cant stand to hear the loss of American lives while for the Pakistani establishment loss of Pakistani lives is no big deal. 12 innocent Pakistanis killed one day by US drone atacks, 45 innocent Pakistanis killed another day by US drone attacks. No one in the Pakistani establishment makes a fuss about it. Even in Pakistan a gora life is 1000 times more valuable than a Pakistani life and we've seen that after the murderer Raymond Davis has been set free.

Kya fida tha azaadi ki liye larna Pakistanio jab goraiy keh ghulam hi rahna tha.
 
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Pakistan Army, American Army, Pakistan government, American government, ISI, and CIA yeh sab shamil hai inn U.S. drone attacks mein. All these people are working together on attacking FATA with U.S. drones.


The difference between the American establishment and the Pakistani establishment is that the American establishment cant stand to hear the loss of American lives while for the Pakistani establishment loss of Pakistani lives is no big deal. 12 innocent Pakistanis killed one day by US drone atacks, 45 innocent Pakistanis killed another day by US drone attacks. No one in the Pakistani establishment makes a fuss about it. Even in Pakistan a gora life is 1000 times more valuable than a Pakistani life and we've seen that after the murderer Raymond Davis has been set free.

Kya fida tha azaadi ki liye larna Pakistanio jab goraiy keh ghulam hi rahna tha.

+1


The fact that it done this ways shows that the leadership is as corrupt as possible.
 
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This is the face saving exercise, I for one do not believe that some how Americans are bombing with out Pakistani army collaboration. So, this exercise of demanding apology is a farce. Guess who else is asking for apologies from US, Karzhai the great president of afghanistan.
 
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if the meeting in Omaq (once again, in which not the Ministry of Foreign affirs, not the Ministry of Interior, not any Majlis committee, not any political party and not any politicians, but Gen. Kiyani and DG operations represented Pakistan in negotiations with US) was meaningless, why was Gen. Kiyani in a useless meeting?? Why was this useless meeting held in a third country? How is it that the Pakistani army chielf "negotiates" Pakistan's security ??
What happened at the meeting? Why focus on that meeting and not those of Kerry and Grosman with the political leadership? It was after Kerry went back that talk of blood money really picked up in the US. So I fail to se why you insist on focussing on the Oman meeting. That meeting might have been used to hammer out concessions from the US, but the decision had already been made by the political parties, and the Army chose to go along with it.
Now, it is absolutely true that the PPP government did not want this Davis problem, it would have been happy to see the back of him -- so how come this did not happen??
The publicity around the Davis case, the PMLN choosing to highlight the case, and the media getting a hold of the story and Punjab police officials leaking interrogation videos and other details about the case to the media.
Pakistan's security apparatus certainly were embarrassed by this Davis affair, they had much to gain by appearing to not capitulate, did they ensure that Davis would remain in custody till the American learned to say "uncle"?
If the Ppp had decided that it needed us aid, then why not make the Us say uncle before handing over a murderer?
Are Pakistani politicians, political parties and the electorate that votes them into office, all to blame, but not the army??
Pakistani politicians leading the Ppp and pmln, yes, they are to blame as the elected representatives with whom responsibility lies.

Pakistani people, if they choose to continue to look to the Army to 'fix' things, and refuse to hold their elected representatives accountable for a decision on their watch, will be responsible.

The Army is responsible only if it forced the elected government to release Davis, and not if it supported their decision.

As for reasonable people disagreeing with me, well, I have yet to see reasonable arguments from them. Its all emotion and a call for the Army to act unconstitutionally to prevent unpopular decisions by the government.
 
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This is the face saving exercise, I for one do not believe that some how Americans are bombing with out Pakistani army collaboration. So, this exercise of demanding apology is a farce. Guess who else is asking for apologies from US, Karzhai the great president of afghanistan.

my friend,

Under normal circumstances I would have agreed with you but come on not this time. This is too blatant and predetermined. An open air gathering of tribesmen in a large number along with tribal volunteers and policemen was targeted. These are the people who took arms against the Taliban.

This was not an attack on a cave or a mud house. But an open air jirga of tribal elders. Yes on other occasions Pakistan government has been complicit but this attack more or less looks like that incident in Iraq which saw Iraqi civilians and associated press camera man being mowed down by Apache and the sickening conversation of the crew. Go a bit further back and you might recall the shooting down of an Iranian Airliner by the Americans in 80s. This all tells you one thing that these guys show no regard for human life. They would speak at length preaching freedom and law and respect for human rights to the rest of the world. Their president will even accept the Nobel price for peace (what a joke) but this failing president is so desperate that he would sanction an attack on a peace gathering which had nothing similar to a terrorist meeting. And just to teach a lesson to a weaker country for keeping its undercover agent for over a month,

So my dear, while you have every right to blame the Pakistani decision makers (government and the army) but please do spare a thought for the people who had nothing to do with terrorism, have been themselves victims of terrorist attacks, have picked up arms against Taliban, and might have continued with their conversation even after hearing the drone thinking that it was on their side.

Just as a fellow human being I think its fair to expect from everyone despite his/ her political/ religious or national differences to condemn or at least question this incident which resulted in such a big loss of life.

Lets agree on one thing here. These people didn’t deserve to die like this. They had no hand in Pakistan’s failure in quashing the Taliban movement in tribal area or the less than impressive record of the NATO in Afghanistan or the booming drug trade during the Karzai’s government.
 
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Just as a fellow human being I think its fair to expect from everyone despite his/ her political/ religious or national differences to condemn or at least question this incident which resulted in such a big loss of life.


i dont want to start a flame war, but we are talking about indians with a visceral inferiority complex that manifests itself in deep hatred of pakistan, and that my friend is a very unpleasant place to try and understand.

asking for basic norms of human compassion will, in their own twisted way, be seen as weakness.
 
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