Pakistan demands apology over drone strike

[President Camacho]

Let us bear in mind this latest attack included many taliban operatives. Further, they were engaged with local tribesmen in a jirga to resolve disputing claims over a mineral mine. Why? Two-fold. Your government asserts no authority in this area and the enemy does. An enemy, btw, to whom these locals have seen fit to collaborate.

S-2, do you not think that lack of law and order in that area has made the general public a hostage to the terrorists? Apparently, you find it fit to give them a 'droned' death sentence even when they are directly not culprits. What you call collaboration is more of a blackmail, don't you think? It sounds like bombing a bus because it has been hijacked. If that is the only way to eliminate terrorists, and we have no empathy for the locals, then why not just nuke the entire area or carpet bomb it? Why spare anyone?

 

[Mujeeb47]

I have visited whole Queeta. But I have not find even a single Taliban. Millions of people are living in Queeta but no one has reported taliban. Just conspiracy theory.

 

[rubyjackass]

No apology...
Mazaq kartay ho panday ji...

genuine question hai ji.

aur ek qeschen hai sir, udhar phreeway par davis protests chal rahe hai kya? I don't see much noise in the press about this. Only Imran Khan managed some numbers I read. Is this because PML-N reined in its elements from coming onto roads?

 

[Mujeeb47]

No protest at all !

 

[S-2]

"S-2, do you not think that lack of law and order in that area has made the general public a hostage to the terrorists?"

I think that the Pakistani government has largely aborgated it's sovereign authority. There's no question if you listen or read Ms. Farhat Taj and others that the local populace feel trapped between the Taliban and the army.

"Apparently, you find it fit to give them a 'droned' death sentence even when they are directly not culprits."

Not where it's unwarranted.

"What you call collaboration is more of a blackmail, don't you think?"

Of course not. This is hardly a bus hi-jacking. You've conveniently ignored the circumstance surrounding this event. These men WENT to the taliban to adjudicate a tribal dispute regarding a mineral claim. The SEEKED openly the assistance of the taliban regarding an issue of mineral wealth...money.

Should I shed tears for their motive or association?

 

[Mujeeb47]

S 2 reply
Yeap ! This attack has only caused damage to war against terror of USA and Pak Army.

 

[President Camacho]

"S-2, do you not think that lack of law and order in that area has made the general public a hostage to the terrorists?"

S-2: I think that the Pakistani government has largely aborgated it's sovereign authority. There's no question if you listen or read Ms. Farhat Taj and others that the local populace feel trapped between the Taliban and the army.

Okay I agree, though only somewhat, as the government had no other choice to call a ceasefire by any means.

"Apparently, you find it fit to give them a 'droned' death sentence even when they are directly not culprits."

S-2: Not where it's unwarranted.

How was this one warranted? The majority that perished was not terrorist.

"What you call collaboration is more of a blackmail, don't you think?"

S-2: Of course not. This is hardly a bus hi-jacking. You've conveniently ignored the circumstance surrounding this event. These men WENT to the taliban to adjudicate a tribal dispute regarding a mineral claim. The SEEKED openly the assistance of the taliban regarding an issue of mineral wealth...money.

Should I shed tears for their motive or association?

That jirga was less of adjudication, and more of negotiation. Their repute as the elders in the area is the last straw they are hanging on to, in order to keep everything from being taken away by the terrorists at gun point. Per the news, I can't see how they sought the assistance of the Taliban. Could you please provide some links/sources that say the same?

And no, I am not asking you to shed any tears. I am only asking you to show the reason that justifies your contention.

 

[S-2]

"That jirga was less of adjudication, and more of negotiation."

And, therefore, the purpose of the taliban when the claim was disputed by two contending tribes? Did they not refer their claims to the taliban for resolution? It would seem so.

"I am only asking you to show the reason that justifies your contention."

My contention that taliban were present? My contention that these tribes looked to the taliban to resolve a monetary dispute when doing so clearly ignores the sovereign authority of the Pakistani government?

You've called it a negotiation. Fine. Why were the taliban brought into this process and not the government? What responsibility do these tribal leaders have and what risk did they incur by their choice?

 

[53fd]

"S-2, do you not think that lack of law and order in that area has made the general public a hostage to the terrorists?"

I think that the Pakistani government has largely aborgated it's sovereign authority. There's no question if you listen or read Ms. Farhat Taj and others that the local populace feel trapped between the Taliban and the army.

"Apparently, you find it fit to give them a 'droned' death sentence even when they are directly not culprits."

Not where it's unwarranted.

"What you call collaboration is more of a blackmail, don't you think?"

Of course not. This is hardly a bus hi-jacking. You've conveniently ignored the circumstance surrounding this event. These men WENT to the taliban to adjudicate a tribal dispute regarding a mineral claim. The SEEKED openly the assistance of the taliban regarding an issue of mineral wealth...money.

Should I shed tears for their motive or association?

You clearly don't know what Pashtunwali is. You clearly do not understand the difference in dynamics of FATA & KPK, & FATA's close association with Afghanistan & contempt for the Pakistan central government. So I don't think you are really in a position to comment on these issues.

 

[S-2]

"You clearly do not understand the difference in dynamics of FATA & KPK, & FATA's close association with Afghanistan & contempt for the Pakistan central government. So I don't think you are really in a position to comment on these issues."

I disagree. My grasp of the issues is more than adequate to provide comment here.

Thanks.

 

[AstanoshKhan]

The facts are that the Talisman have been decimated in Swat and most of their commanders killed. Sufi is in jail and Allah Fazlullah hiding in Afghanistan. Sufi sons were killed and Sufi himself is not going to live much longer given his age.

I am not the one whining - I made factual arguments that you chose not to refute and instead responded with a rant.

Wow simply wow. Do you even know death is not limited to haunt you down in jail only? He should be made an example for other people - that if you join them, you'll meet the same fate but no one likes to kill his sons and that is a son, which is a source of Dollars for the father (here Son is Taliban and Father is Holy-ISI/PA), I hope you are getting the grip here.

One of my classmate is on a high rank in Pak Army. He was deployed to Swat during the operations. They captured a few Talibans after meeting an intense fight of crossfires where he lost 2 of his soldiers but eventually captured the Taliban while killing a few of them. They were expecting to be praised by the higher ups for this marvelous job they performed but ironically and quite surprisingly they were asked to leave/release the captured Talibans and later he was asked to report to the HQ where he submit his resignation but still waiting to be released by Pak Army.

There are countless other stories like these whrere I can bombard you with, of Military personnel and people of Pakistan deceived by the Military higher ups on countless occasions, but what can a poor soldier do, to feed his family he has to fire the bullets - be it their own people. You have certainly based your analysis on mainly electronic media and the food they provided to you which always shows the good side of the image. I know more than you and many others on this very forum as I live among those miserable people affected by these military operations, the grief and the problems they are in is beyond your tiny bit of imagination, and the consequences of those are quite worrisome for Pak Forces and Pakistan in general - the hate factor has to play the role one way or the other.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Wow simply wow. Do you even know death is not limited to haunt you down in jail only? He should be made an example for other people - that if you join them, you'll meet the same fate but no one likes to kill his sons and that is a son, which is a source of Dollars for the father (here Son is Taliban and Father is Holy-ISI/PA), I hope you are getting the grip here.

One of my classmate is on a high rank in Pak Army. He was deployed to Swat during the operations. They captured a few Talibans after meeting an intense fight of crossfires where he lost 2 of his soldiers but eventually captured the Taliban while killing a few of them. They were expecting to be praised by the higher ups for this marvelous job they performed but ironically and quite surprisingly they were asked to leave/release the captured Talibans and later he was asked to report to the HQ where he submit his resignation but still waiting to be released by Pak Army.

There are countless other stories like these whrere I can bombard you with, of Military personnel and people of Pakistan deceived by the Military higher ups on countless occasions, but what can a poor soldier do, to feed his family he has to fire the bullets - be it their own people. You have certainly based your analysis on mainly electronic media and the food they provided to you which always shows the good side of the image. I know more than you and many others on this very forum as I live among those miserable people affected by these military operations, the grief and the problems they are in is beyond your tiny bit of imagination, and the consequences of those are quite worrisome for Pak Forces and Pakistan in general - the hate factor has to play the role one way or the other.

I have heard stories like this also... This is true, a friend of mine from Swat was even telling us that Mullah Fazlullah himself has links to some people in the Army (and this is the reason why he has not been caught to this date)... Mullah Fazlullah was probably launched when Musharaf realized his Kursi was being shaken by the people... so that he can start saying to people, look you need me against these terrorists...

Also... it is very interesting how our enemies have set the stage... They realized in Musharaf's time that people are sick and tired of the Army's top brass... so they removed him and installed their lackey and puppet Kayani in Musharaf's place... they also instructed him not to take power but to keep working from the back and sidelines... then they launched PR stunts such as Zaid Hamid etc... Now when a common man points towards things done by the Army, they are told... "Army is not in control and only follows the Government's orders... so dont blame the Army, blame the Government"...

Amazing how these people think and plan... Khair... Allah swt is planning too... Lets see how far their plans take them...

The real problem is that Pakistan Army wants to keep ruling Pakistan either directly or from the sidelines... We have come to the stage that either we wont have this Army left or we wont have Pakistan left for them to rule... they get to decide....

 

[Alla hoo]

So have they apologises yet? I think thi sis all just drama. I read somewhere that CUBA sentenced American contractor for 15 years. And pakistan couldnt.

 

[T-Faz]

Wow simply wow. Do you even know death is not limited to haunt you down in jail only? He should be made an example for other people - that if you join them, you'll meet the same fate but no one likes to kill his sons and that is a son, which is a source of Dollars for the father (here Son is Taliban and Father is Holy-ISI/PA), I hope you are getting the grip here.

One of my classmate is on a high rank in Pak Army. He was deployed to Swat during the operations. They captured a few Talibans after meeting an intense fight of crossfires where he lost 2 of his soldiers but eventually captured the Taliban while killing a few of them. They were expecting to be praised by the higher ups for this marvelous job they performed but ironically and quite surprisingly they were asked to leave/release the captured Talibans and later he was asked to report to the HQ where he submit his resignation but still waiting to be released by Pak Army.

There are countless other stories like these whrere I can bombard you with, of Military personnel and people of Pakistan deceived by the Military higher ups on countless occasions, but what can a poor soldier do, to feed his family he has to fire the bullets - be it their own people. You have certainly based your analysis on mainly electronic media and the food they provided to you which always shows the good side of the image. I know more than you and many others on this very forum as I live among those miserable people affected by these military operations, the grief and the problems they are in is beyond your tiny bit of imagination, and the consequences of those are quite worrisome for Pak Forces and Pakistan in general - the hate factor has to play the role one way or the other.

I have heard stories like this also... This is true, a friend of mine from Swat was even telling us that Mullah Fazlullah himself has links to some people in the Army (and this is the reason why he has not been caught to this date)... Mullah Fazlullah was probably launched when Musharaf realized his Kursi was being shaken by the people... so that he can start saying to people, look you need me against these terrorists...

Also... it is very interesting how our enemies have set the stage... They realized in Musharaf's time that people are sick and tired of the Army's top brass... so they removed him and installed their lackey and puppet Kayani in Musharaf's place... they also instructed him not to take power but to keep working from the back and sidelines... then they launched PR stunts such as Zaid Hamid etc... Now when a common man points towards things done by the Army, they are told... "Army is not in control and only follows the Government's orders... so dont blame the Army, blame the Government"...

Amazing how these people think and plan... Khair... Allah swt is planning too... Lets see how far their plans take them...

The real problem is that Pakistan Army wants to keep ruling Pakistan either directly or from the sidelines... We have come to the stage that either we wont have this Army left or we wont have Pakistan left for them to rule... they get to decide....

Yes that is correct, some very powerful officials and others who are still present in the Army and intelligence agencies sympathize with the terrorists. This support is the reason why the militants have not been weakened to the state they should have been at and how they still continue to target various individuals or places of high value.

A number of those officials who have really gone after militants in FATA have either been killed in action or removed from position. In one case, an army official was clearing the areas much too quickly and somehow, I mean somehow the militants were able to 'find' his travel route and attack him while he was traveling, killing him and some of his soldiers.

This is the biggest travesty and I am perplexed by the reason that why would some of these people still support the militants, knowing full and well the kind of damage they have done.

 

[newdelhinsa]

Yes that is correct, some very powerful officials and others who are still present in the Army and intelligence agencies sympathize with the terrorists. This support is the reason why the militants have not been weakened to the state they should have been at and how they still continue to target various individuals or places of high value.

A number of those officials who have really gone after militants in FATA have either been killed in action or removed from position. In one case, an army official was clearing the areas much too quickly and somehow, I mean somehow the militants were able to 'find' his travel route and attack him while he was traveling, killing him and some of his soldiers.

This is the biggest travesty and I am perplexed by the reason that why would some of these people still support the militants, knowing full and well the kind of damage they have done.

^This clear plenty of dust from this particular issue. I can see why would an American will take its time to apologies or simply refuse to do it.
May be they will investigate first themselves before declaring it as a friendly fire.

Same collateral damage has occurred before, only God knows what mechanism they have had in place before to addresses such issues; which suddenly Pakistan has refused to accept. I owe an apology but i am not able to find distinction between civilian casualty before and this particular one. Are these areas fully under control of GoP now?