Pakistan Deal for Chinese J-10 Fighters Uncertain

[bandit]

Even if a friendly Arab Gulf state provided financing, Tufail said more used Lockheed Martin F-16Cs from US stocks are preferable, “rather than trying out a new weapon system that is an unknown commodity in the realm of modern-day combat.”

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...se-j-10-fighters-uncertain.html#ixzz2hKV2QELm

Apart from the money, Tufail also says that older F-16c are preferable to J-10.

Not enough confidence in Chinese aircraft, even from the deepest ally.

 

[truthseeker2010]

NO deal was ever signed.

so PAF Trolled the fan boys!!!

 

[Luftwaffe]

To be fair ITS A WISE MOVE on PAF part and indeed the GOP.

Firstly no country is inducting 3 diffrrent 4 generation fighters of singler engines at the same time. ie F16/52 JF17 & J10 would be real waste of resources for duplication of roles. All 3 offer the same type of role.

Second look at IAF who are really struggling to seal the RAFALE deal and there are questions being raised on future indian involvement ob FGFA AS WELL. A lot of this is financial slow down of the indian economy that has led to a rethink.

Third as one p-oster put it WHY spend very little money you can on J10B just wait for the J60 in 2020+ use the funds to upgrade JF17

IMO the threat that IAF will field SU30MKI RAFALE combo by 2016 with PAK FA coming in 8 years is far fetched..


YOUR WORRY OF IAF is diminishing to SU30MKI MIG29K/SMT & MIRAGE2000 only even LCA will not pose a threat for 5 years yet until MK2 hits the skies in 2019 +

YOU NO LONGER NEED THOSE j10bS

@Oscar @Zakii, where is Thread heading and could you merge it into already running J-10 Thread and remove iaf related posts.

 

[SQ8]

Apart from the money, Tufail also says that older F-16c are preferable to J-10.

Not enough confidence in Chinese aircraft, even from the deepest ally.

Or, if effort were used to interpret that statement.. the cost of trainings, integrating and logistical framework needed for the J-10 would be higher than that for the F-16 which already exists.

Even if the effort was solely focused to find some jibe against Pakistan then
A reading of the whole article might have answered that in the ACdre's own statement.

“rather than trying out a new weapon system that is an unknown commodity in the realm of modern-day combat.”

 

[bandit]

Or, if effort were used to interpret that statement.. the cost of trainings, integrating and logistical framework needed for the J-10 would be higher than that for the F-16 which already exists.

Even if the effort was solely focused to find some jibe against Pakistan then
A reading of the whole article might have answered that in the ACdre's own statement.

“rather than trying out a new weapon system that is an unknown commodity in the realm of modern-day combat.”

I read the article, he mentions 'unknown commodity', clearly pointing towards lack of confidence compared to F-16.

you got it though, if enough efforts are made, you can turn it either ways.

 

[SQ8]

I read the article, he mentions 'unknown commodity', clearly pointing towards lack of confidence compared to F-16.

you got it though, if enough efforts are made, you can turn it either ways.

Like I said, your "clearly" has the deride jibe in it. While to an aviation buff who is not biased, the clearly means an unknown aircraft which will require investment in both time and money to develop trainings, logistics and tactics.

Would you like a 2nd, 3rd, 4th , 5th , 6th opinion on it?

 

[bandit]

Like I said, your "clearly" has the deride jibe in it. While to an aviation buff who is not biased, the clearly means an unknown aircraft which will require investment in both time and money to develop trainings, logistics and tactics.

Would you like a 2nd, 3rd, 4th , 5th , 6th opinion on it?

Even if a friendly Arab Gulf state provided financing, Tufail said more used Lockheed Martin F-16Cs from US stocks are preferable, “rather than trying out a new weapon system that is an unknown commodity in the realm of modern-day combat.”

I can't help your feelings on what I say, but up there he pretty much lays out his preference for US made than Chinese even if he had the money.

 

[jupiter2007]

i think cancel the deal
focus on f-60 j-21

Why J-21? Why not J-31 or something similar to that?

 

[alimobin memon]

J10 Deal wont be cancelled.

 

[SQ8]

I can't help your feelings on what I say, but up there he pretty much lays out his preference for US made than Chinese even if he had the money.

In other words, you dont have anything to back up your statement. Because I dont see where he lays out what you say.
Lets get other opinions on this.
@Dillinger @sandy_3126

J10 Deal wont be cancelled.

Woo Hoo.

 

[karan.1970]

Or, if effort were used to interpret that statement.. the cost of trainings, integrating and logistical framework needed for the J-10 would be higher than that for the F-16 which already exists.

Even if the effort was solely focused to find some jibe against Pakistan then
A reading of the whole article might have answered that in the ACdre's own statement.

“rather than trying out a new weapon system that is an unknown commodity in the realm of modern-day combat.”

I find the approach no different from India spending $2.3 billion to upgrade and extend the life of its Mirage 2000 fleet to leverage the existing infrastructure and pilot/ground crew/tacticians' experience on the platform

 

[Armstrong]

So @Oscar did the predictions/assertions/assessments (call it what one wills) of some of the members here on PDF turn out to be true that the PAF might be looking into the possibility of having a High-Low of F-16s (Block 52s & F-15 MLU) & Jf-17s respectively with possibly a phased integration of higher-end avionics & weapons etc. to the Jf-17 along with possible additional acquisitions of F-16s with MLU Kits (subject to the Pak-US Relations) whilst saving up our funds (however less we may have them) or prospectively allocate probable future funding, for the J-31 instead of going for the J-10Bs ?

 

[MilSpec]

In other words, you dont have anything to back up your statement. Because I dont see where he lays out what you say.
Lets get other opinions on this.
@Dillinger @sandy_3126

Not an expert on acquisitions here, but I have always felt (f16 Blk 52/blk 60) would be much more advantageous to PAF strictly from operational cost perspective (politics aside)....
J10 would have been exceptional platform if PAF acquired it in Musharraf era and decided to work on it, but now I think the technology is passing it by. Another headache for PAF would be AL31FN, I knew this for sure PAF will not accept J10 version with Al31FN, this engine needs a big support structure and Russia has still kept it's control algorithms pretty close to it's chest (I would to if it was my product). PAF wouldn't want to field a single engine fighter which can be grounded by political maneuvering of India (with similar potential issue with it's US fighter). RD 33 is a different beast, china can provide complete support to keep them operational thus didn't pose the operational threat that J10 AL-31fn does.

Time line: Primary threat for PAF, India has depleted it's sqdn strength but has added few MKI and were in the process of selecting MMRCA, it made perfect sense in logical threat assessment waiting till IAF made it's selection as PAF in it's current is more than able to defend it's air space.

If PAF is confident that there wont be major escalation in coming years until it can consolidate its economy/budget, then it can run a major upset to balance of power by introducing a mix of J20 and J31 in the next decade. With no whatsoever knowledge of performance characteristics of these platforms, IAF already committed to rafale and PMF FGFA, PAF will definitely have the advantage. If you do want to retrain personnel/tactics/service infrastructure for PAF, Why do it for J10B/C, it definitely would make more sense to do the same for J20/j31 and jump a generation when there is no eminent clear and present threat from India.

 

[Armstrong]

If PAF is confident that there wont be major escalation in coming years until it can consolidate its economy/budget, then it can run a major upset to balance of power by introducing a mix of J20 and J31 in the next decade. With no whatsoever knowledge of performance characteristics of these platforms, IAF already committed to rafale and PMF FGFA, PAF will definitely have the advantage. If you do want to retrain personnel/tactics/service infrastructure for PAF, Why do it for J10B/C, it definitely would make more sense to do the same for J20/j31 and jump a generation when there is no eminent clear and present threat from India.

This is the Pakistan Air Force we're talking about right ?

I can't remember the last time any plan was followed by any State Institution of Pakistan, barring the odd anomaly out, that incorporated both ingenuity, foresight & such a carefully thought out strategic calculus into it !

 

[MilSpec]

This is the Pakistan Air Force we're talking about right ?

I can't remember the last time any plan was followed by any State Institution of Pakistan, barring the odd anomaly out, that incorporated both ingenuity, foresight & such a carefully thought out strategic calculus into it !

On contrary... If there is one prominent area where Pakistan has always held a distinct advantage is PAF's threat assessment, their planning and operational mgmt has been spot on even with their limited resources...