Pakistan Day 2020 l PAF rehearsals

[StormBreaker]

@Windjammer @Hodor @Knuckles @The Eagle @StormBreaker

You people have watched the video of the crash.. what are your thoughts on this ? please was that might b G-Lock or some technical fault ? because we can see when the aircraft was coming down it went totally vertical and F-16s dont do this atleast they make some parabola a bit... I think it was some engine failure because if it was G-Lock then how WC Nouman Akram Shaheed recovered at the very last time because the jet was horizontal just before the crash..

Bro i have made 4 extensive and as we proceeded, deductive posts.

If it were the effects of g’LOC, they would have been way earlier before the loop as pilot was successfully performing it.

But, if you watch videos preceding the loop, you will see some unusual and instable flight pattern, if g’LOC, this is where he might have had that, after that he performed loop. Before the loop, you might mistake his flight path for split S but that didn’t go complete.

As he descends for the other half of the loop, his descend seems very sharp and little effects of flaps or air brakes are seen which means he was declining steeply and that the engine was stalled. Before the descension for completing the loop, you see unusual smoke but there is definitely no bird hit.

So in short

• Altimeter miscalibrated
• Compressor stall
• g’LOC
• Least likely possible for a pilot of his mighty calibre to misjudge while executing the loop

 

[Raider 21]

@Windjammer @Hodor @Knuckles @The Eagle @StormBreaker

You people have watched the video of the crash.. what are your thoughts on this ? please was that might b G-Lock or some technical fault ? because we can see when the aircraft was coming down it went totally vertical and F-16s dont do this atleast they make some parabola a bit... I think it was some engine failure because if it was G-Lock then how WC Nouman Akram Shaheed recovered at the very last time because the jet was horizontal just before the crash..

The Investigation Board would know better. Personally, I find it pilot error. But something wrong could have gone with the aircraft. I don't think G-LOC is the case. Another example is Joe Bill Dryden. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=162029

Bro i have made 4 extensive and as we proceeded, deductive posts.

If it were the effects of g’LOC, they would have been way earlier before the loop as pilot was successfully performing it.

But, if you watch videos preceding the loop, you will see some unusual and instable flight pattern, if g’LOC, this is where he might have had that, after that he performed loop. Before the loop, you might mistake his flight path for split S but that didn’t go complete.

As he descends for the other half of the loop, his descend seems very sharp and little effects of flaps or air brakes are seen which means he was declining steeply and that the engine was stalled. Before the descension for completing the loop, you see unusual smoke but there is definitely no bird hit.

So in short

• Altimeter miscalibrated
• Compressor stall
• g’LOC
• Least likely possible for a pilot of his mighty calibre to misjudge while executing the loop

The last point is very possible. It has taken the best of lives in the profession.

 

[StormBreaker]

The Investigation Board would know better. Personally, I find it pilot error. But something wrong could have gone with the aircraft. I don't think G-LOC is the case. Another example is Joe Bill Dryden. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=162029


The last point is very possible. It has taken the best of lives in the profession.

But if that is the case, which seems quite possible unfortunately, altimeter is also related with this...

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

These dangerous moves for the sake of air shows should be banned. In the other thread, some members are saying that such aerobatics do inspire young generation to adopt fighter pilot as a career but guess what, entire city saw an air crash which has created more fear among the citizens than inspiration. Parents will be more reluctant to send their kids for such a career path. PAF needs to think about it that whether such vertical loops/dangerous stunts are worth displaying every now and than.Not just the precious pilot live but the valuable plane as well.

 

[babrum]

These dangerous moves for the sake of air shows should be banned. In the other thread, some members are saying that such aerobatics do inspire young generation to adopt fighter pilot as a career but guess what, entire city saw an air crash which has created more fear among the citizens than inspiration. Parents will be more reluctant to send their kids for such a career path. PAF needs to think about it that whether such vertical loops/dangerous stunts are worth displaying every now and than.Not just the precious pilot live but the valuable plane as well.

do you really think one downed jet will stop them? jets have crashed before nothing has stopped them period period

These dangerous moves for the sake of air shows should be banned. In the other thread, some members are saying that such aerobatics do inspire young generation to adopt fighter pilot as a career but guess what, entire city saw an air crash which has created more fear among the citizens than inspiration. Parents will be more reluctant to send their kids for such a career path. PAF needs to think about it that whether such vertical loops/dangerous stunts are worth displaying every now and than.Not just the precious pilot live but the valuable plane as well.

do you really think one downed jet will stop them? jets have crashed before nothing has stopped them period period

 

[SQ8]

These dangerous moves for the sake of air shows should be banned. In the other thread, some members are saying that such aerobatics do inspire young generation to adopt fighter pilot as a career but guess what, entire city saw an air crash which has created more fear among the citizens than inspiration. Parents will be more reluctant to send their kids for such a career path. PAF needs to think about it that whether such vertical loops/dangerous stunts are worth displaying every now and than.Not just the precious pilot live but the valuable plane as well.

Multiple crashes both in PAF and many many AirForces abroad haven’t stopped people from flying. You are twenty times more likely to be killed today by a flat tire skid in your car at low speed than these pilots. Because they possess higher training and skillsets to cope with the dangers associated.

What can happen, will happen - but its safer to be in a fighter cockpit with the right skillset than in a car with the relatively right skillset.

The Investigation Board would know better. Personally, I find it pilot error. But something wrong could have gone with the aircraft. I don't think G-LOC is the case. Another example is Joe Bill Dryden. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=162029


The last point is very possible. It has taken the best of lives in the profession.

Sound familiar?


“Investigators noted that he hadn't signed off on his aircraft discrepancy book that day, giving the jet the good-to-go for the practice. His F/A-18C Hornet was fine, but it was uncharacteristic for Kuss to forget to do something like that. It was also odd that he forgot to enter his radar squawk code and turn on his transponder, according to the report, and then later told air traffic control that he had turned off his afterburner, though he hadn't.

Those mistakes, coupled with some cloud cover at 3,000 feet were to blame for the accident”

 

[khansaheeb]

Might get cancelled due to the Carona Virus.

And so it should, we should treat it like a full-scale biological attack on the nation and deal with it appropriately. Which means key personnel should be scattered to different parts of the country, our soldiers given full NBC gear to don and our public fully informed about this deadly weapon of war, Corona aka COVID 19, and informed how to prepare and protect against it. They mustn't be in a position to say we didn't know or we weren't told. The full state media needs to go into overdrive and be part of the defense mechanism. Let this be a training exercise for a nastier weapon.

 

[PradoTLC]

These dangerous moves for the sake of air shows should be banned. In the other thread, some members are saying that such aerobatics do inspire young generation to adopt fighter pilot as a career but guess what, entire city saw an air crash which has created more fear among the citizens than inspiration. Parents will be more reluctant to send their kids for such a career path. PAF needs to think about it that whether such vertical loops/dangerous stunts are worth displaying every now and than.Not just the precious pilot live but the valuable plane as well.

that wont happen.

Do you know how many planes crashed at airshows?.... did any body stop airshows?

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Country like Pakistan can't afford it so stop giving examples of western countries. They have the development tech, money so random loss is very much affordable for them. We are always short of resources. Two weeks back there was a similar show in Karachi. Was it worth it, I don't think so.. Paf management clearly got carried away with such non essential aerobatics performances in the last few years. Hopefully yesterday lost will make them rethink.
@PradoTLC @babrum

 

[PradoTLC]

Country like Pakistan can't afford it so stop giving examples of western countries. They have the development tech, money so random loss is very much affordable for them. We are always short of resources. Two weeks back there was a similar shown in Karachi. Was it worth it, I don't think so.. Paf management clearly got carried away with such non essential aerobatics performances in the last few years. Hopefully yesterday lost will make them rethink.
@PradoTLC @babrum

what you dont understand about high performance institutions they dont stop just bcos of an accident. They evaluate , diagnose the problem and build measures to prevent it from happening again... They wont stop bcos you think it is a bad idea..

Besides if you cant handle pressures of peace time you then certainly cannot handle the pressures of war time.

kind of like those weak students or employees who find every lame excuse to take a sick leave ... where as higher performance individuals find ways around it but never stop.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Country like Pakistan can't afford it so stop giving examples of western countries. They have the development tech, money so random loss is very much affordable for them. We are always short of resources. Two weeks back there was a similar show in Karachi. Was it worth it, I don't think so.. Paf management clearly got carried away with such non essential aerobatics performances in the last few years. Hopefully yesterday lost will make them rethink.
@PradoTLC @babrum

I think parades should stop. However acrobatic displays should take place at least twice a year.
Parades are more difficult and expensive.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

what you dont understand about high performance institutions they dont stop just bcos of an accident. They evaluate , diagnose the problem and build measures to prevent it from happening again... They wont stop bcos you think it is a bad idea..

Besides if you cant handle pressures of peace time you then certainly cannot handle the pressures of war time.

kind of like those weak students or employees who find every lame excuse to take a sick leave ... where as higher performance individuals find ways around it but never stop.

Its all being smart with your limited resources rather than matching others in a Macho man style. Yes if such things will go on than, such accidents will also go on.

A simple horizontal flypass is more than enough during parades.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

The Investigation Board would know better. Personally, I find it pilot error

Do they public the investigation? Recently FT7 and Mirage crashed too

 

[PradoTLC]

Its all being smart with your limited resources rather than matching others in a Macho man style. Yes if such things will go on than, such accidents will also go on.

it isnt about macho... it about character of high performers they cannot be boxed in... if they do they stop becoming what makes them so capable. think i cant think of any single institution of Pakistan that produces first class professionals that no body in the world doubts their calibre.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

it isnt about macho... it about character of high performers they cannot be boxed in... if they do they stop becoming what makes them so capable. think i cant think of any single institution of Pakistan that produces first class professionals that no body in the world doubts their calibre.

I agreed on this. Our pilots are best among the bests. But these aerobatics are equally dangerous no matter how skillful and experienced you are.