Pakistan Could Have Technical Edge on Indian Air Force Despite Rafale Jet Deployment: IAF Veteran

[The Eagle]

Only Pakistanis would feel any sort of pride at shooting down a 60 year old jet with a 300,000$ BVR missile . Like honestly, the 2 missiles were more expensive than the jet itself. Wow what an impressive accomplishment. Almost as brave as the D Day landings or the Red Army's fight against Germany.

It just doesn't stop here. Only Indians can send such kind of planes to teach a lesson to Pakistan & sacrifice Abhinandan merely to cost some million $$ of missiles. What a talent, skills & intelligence and in-fact the level of bravery. Only Indians can feel proud like this and still has a courage to plainly lie on face to claim an F-16 kill. Like honestly, everyone was a laugh while Modi ji & guys kept the course till date and never cover their face.

Pakistan is really doomed for the matter that been fighting such level of rival. Alas, there's nothing can be done.

Are you 15 years old?

I am surprised that you didn't get it by the content and approach.

 

[The Eagle]

It is altogether a wrong debate you are trying to stir for face saving.

That is the only debate for call center generals now a days having no clue about the loss in battle like this. Imagine the level of adversary that only calculates that how missiles were fired against him and how old of an asset he lost in battle; which apparently doesn't matter. This is exactly what the internet world has taught the propaganda call centers as how to storm Internet and seed whatever gibberish one does know merely to spam information and nothing else.

 

[Signalian]

It shows you have very limited knowledge on this matter.
All major firms especially French and German ones constantly tell their PR reps like me to showcase the weakness and limitations of adversary systems without disclosing classified info of own systems or allied ones.
Infact just yesterday I had to do presentation on poor A-pole latency of Russian missiles

You are just a PR Rep of a defense firm ? Thank you, that says it all. Not worth engaging anymore.

 

[PradoTLC]

Somewhere in that sequence of events there was an item number that took place that much is clear according to my insider sources...but I'm not at liberty to disclose the exact timing of it.

@Retired Troll having to do ur job here...u gotta step it up.

feel free to add...

The one who is wromg is Vijainder Thakur not air chief.
Air chief is right that not 36 Rafales are enough and we need more Rafales or siminlar jets and also upgrade other jets with loger range astra AAMs

why?....

i thought you trashed us?..

no?..

Pilot is not junk but aircraft is. These airframes are at least 40 years old, mostly 50 years old . They might have gotten the bison upgrade or whatever but they are still junk. There is simply no money to purchase new aircraft. Most of the defence budget is spent on paying salaries and pensions.

so you airforce was wasting precious money on junk upgrades?..

were they incompetent or reckless ?

 

[The Eagle]

The debate becomes useless when fighter aircrafts are compared with cars and laptops.

Not just that. It became useless when one of the rivals has no moral that even if you broke his jaw & teeth; it just doesn't matter because he can have another with money.

 

[PradoTLC]

Only Pakistanis would feel any sort of pride at shooting down a 60 year old jet with a 300,000$ BVR missile . Like honestly, the 2 missiles were more expensive than the jet itself. Wow what an impressive accomplishment. Almost as brave as the D Day landings or the Red Army's fight against Germany.

We feel pride we shot your Su-30 down slaughtered the Mig-21 something we have been doing since in 1965. But the real victory was we told india to "fcuk your self" .. and india like a typical school bully ran back to his mama (USA) to complain about our use of F-16s..

but specifically what we gained.

1) two front line planes splashed

2) One Mi17 lost thanks to PAF intense radar jamming

3) Kashmir mujhadden smashed 44 indian soldiers. so 44 less soldiers available for oppression

4) india was exposed as liar on a global stage

5) India was seen as a unreasonable asshole in light Imran Khan genuine offer for reconciliation

6) india was see as less capable military

7) Indian media was exposed as well as a irresponsible out let

8) Pakistan narrative to was gradually being listened thanks largely to modi incompetence and Imran brilliance such as UN speech.

Tejas could have been much better than Mig-21 for Abhinandan as it offers same advantages with smaller RCS and better ECM

and yet it hiding safely in Tamil Nadu.. flying around people and impressing ding dongs people who exposure to advance tech was PADmini Premier....

 

[The Eagle]

If Tejas Mk1A is obsolete so is JFT Blk 3

Since, the Block-1 its been like this and apparently may remain for kingdom to come. Is this the kind of level & intelligence to attend such classified meetings and keep insisting regardless of plane itself been missing except of trials & trials and paper capability. At-least raise the bar of discussion for some quality & interest. Being acting like childish wouldn't bring any good at all.

NDA of my firm and other similar large international defence firms does not cover information on adversary systems and only applies to own or allied systems.

You just had enough information during classified meeting on PL-15 and here you are contradicting yourself. What is everyone suggesting that will you please stop doing this at-least. You don't need to refer to some attendance into meetings to add weight to your argument. Just simply state what you know and leave it. Referring to classified meetings attendance or trying to claim some credential is not going to help you unless your words & discussion speaks volume of credibility. No one ever says anything about attending the meetings even... never ever let alone claims just so that people may attract. That is a wrong way to attract some attention. Have your say my friend and wait for it.

 

[Windjammer]

I like shwoing the adversary reality for free.
Worth more than money.

You often quote your own posts, which again proves that forget others, you are not even convinced yourself.
However, God loves a trier but he hates a chancer.

 

[PakFactor]

Are you 15 years old?

And who quoted you this price for a Mig 21? It is not a Maruti 800 from your garage.

It is altogether a wrong debate you are trying to stir for face saving.

The real losses for India in exchange for Pakistans loss of 2 AMRAAM missiles.

1) Reputational loss of India as a conventional superpower. Unable to hit back.
2) Reputational loss of IAF as a potent force. Unable to achieve air superiority.
3) Reputational loss of Indian military for pilot capture.
4) Su-30MKI loss - $35M
5) Mig 21 Bis loss - $15M
6) Mi-17v5 loss - $12M
7) 6 Military men dead from chopper crash
8) 2 Su-30 pilots dead
9) Further loss of credibility of Indian media
10) Loss of confidence of Indian public in the armed forces


Further losses not yet disclosed (I wont care what anyone thinks)

11) Ammo depot completely damaged with millions of dollars of ammunition destroyed
12) Unknown number of troops injured/or killed in ground strike
13) Unknown number of armored vehicles damaged/rendered unuseable

Pakistan's loss.

1) Had to provide free medical for Wing commander
2) Had to provide free tea. He had 8 cups during his stay in Pakistan
3) Had to provide sooper biscuits (served along with tea)
4) Had to provide a total of 5 Meals.
5) Mig 21 Debris transport to a designated location.
6) 2 x AMRAAMs

It requires more than basic mathematics to stomach these losses. It requires a functioning brain with emotional intelligence on top of IQ.

This ladies and gentlemen is called a bargain.

Don’t forget the Petrol used in the trucks to transport the debris. Just saying. Lol

 

[TsAr]

It shows you have very limited knowledge on this matter.
All major firms especially French and German ones constantly tell their PR reps like me to showcase the weakness and limitations of adversary systems without disclosing classified info of own systems or allied ones.
Infact just yesterday I had to do presentation on poor A-pole latency of Russian missiles

So you are a PR/marketing Rep for a western defense firm representing them in India. Most likely you would have a MBA degree. Your job is to nicely present in some good english the stuff you are provided by your firm to the govt baboos. You are doing your best here on PDF as well but remember that this is not some indian govt forum run by baboos.

 

[baqai]

New Delhi (Sputnik): On Friday, Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief RKS Bhadauria said the 36 Rafale jets were not the whole solution to the IAF's needs. India signed a $7.8 billion contract with French Dassault Aviation to buy the aircraft in 2019.

Wait i thought their Airchief and Modi claimed that "if we had Rafale the result would have been different" PAF is not getting significant force multiplier anytime soon in comparison to IAF, for a "pesky" little bird like JF-17 Indian experts have already claimed that their mighty Tejas in better in almost every way so threat of JF-17 is nullified there.

The IAF's excessive focus on platforms rather than sensors and weapon systems was evident during the Kargil conflict with Pakistan two decades ago. “The IAF fulfilled the expectations only after it made emergency purchases of Laser-Guided Bombs and targeting pods,” Thakur said.

seems to me that IAF leadership lacks in future planning and acquisitions, they only take steps towards the right direction when they fail or are bitch slapped, this has been the trend since 1965, who much time do they need to learn, i think there is something very wrong at grass root levels (Academy) which bring up such poor leadership

On February 27 2019, a day after the IAF struck an alleged terror training camp at Balakot, the PAF surprised the IAF with its longer range AMRAAM and better supporting sensor capability.

Wait hold on a second, there are multiple claims by IAF suggesting that they did not hit anything and they "delibrately" missed the target OR weapons malfunctioned OR something or the other, point being this claim that IAF "STRUCK" something beyond few trees is beyond comprehension

Second part of the statement is more surprising to me, how come IAF was caught off guard and surprised? operating parameters for F-16 and AMRAAM's are known, we did not came unannounced in the middle of night, we came after our DGISPR announced on public TV that we WILL retaliate, again my point that there is something very wrong with IAF leadership

“IAF allowed itself to be outgunned by focusing on platform acquisitions, rather than weapon system and sensor upgrades. With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine,” IAF veteran Thakur asserted.

Could have, would have, if are statements normally used in mission reports being filed for damage assessment, regrets and failures, I might add that IF airboss had given permission to Weapons Free the result COULD have been more colorful for IAF, there you go use of COULD in a statement of regret as an example.

Secondly, I normally don't like repeating myself but again this statement strongly suggest the kind of leadership IAF has and the kind of threat assessment and tactics they deployed which resulted in such a failure.

 

[Dazzler]

So you are a PR/marketing Rep for a western defense firm representing them in India. Most likely you would have a MBA degree. Your job is to nicely present in some good english the stuff you are provided by your firm to the govt baboos. You are doing your best here on PDF as well but remember that this is not some indian govt forum run by baboos.

They come in all sizes and flavors in the neighboring lala land.
Don't be surprised.

 

[dbc]

Infact we are encouraged to talk in public about weaknesses amd limitations of adversary systems.

Here is some advise for you - no charge...

Spoiler

 

[aliyusuf]

Secondly, I normally don't like repeating myself but again this statement strongly suggest the kind of leadership IAF has and the kind of threat assessment and tactics they deployed which resulted in such a failure.

Correct.
What these fuzzy brained posters, from the east of the Radcliffe Line, are not getting is that this is exactly the actual problem of the IAF at the moment ... and this problem is not going to get solved anytime soon. No numbers of additional Rafale's acquired and getting longer ranged missiles are going to solve this problem ... not at all.

They should start paying more attention to the general caliber of their personnel ... both pilots and planners.

Post Script Addition: (An after thought)
If they don't ... then dhakkans ... (pardon my french) ... like B.S. Dhanoa will keep becoming the air chief of the hindutva land.

 

[Sulemanms202]

Rafaele with spectre is a very good plane.. but Indians will have edge over Pak in air war not because of Rafaele or spectre..

its the girth of pakistan thats the problem for airforce we dont have much land horizontally speaking so with scalp and stormshadow can cause some serious damage to our ground assets but there is a way out of this problem