Pakistan conducts successful test launches of 4 x Nasr missiles 05 Nov, 2013

[ssethii]

that is indeed a smart move by Pakistani military think tank to counter an enemy that is many times larger in size. Nobody cares if a 1000 soldiers died during war time but if India retaliates with it's conventional missiles then there will be international consequences it has to face.

And if India reacts in big numbers there are other muslim states that will remember us but we will make sure that there are no hindus left in the world to mourn you.

 

[SQ8]

And if India reacts in big numbers there are other muslim states that will remember us but we will make sure that there are no hindus left in the world to mourn you.

If they do that(which is very unlikely that they will)...they will also kill millions of their fellow Muslims. for e.g. A strike on Dehli will kill nearly 2 million Muslims, A strike on Mumbai will kill 2.3 million Muslims....and so on.

 

[The Deterrent]

Experts: Missile Test Firing Shows Development Complete
Nov. 6, 2013 - 06:07PM |
By USMAN ANSARI

Pakistan's army chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani was onhand to witness the test of Pakistan's Hatf-IX/Vengeance-IX missile, otherwise known as 'Nasr,' on Oct. 5. (Aamir Qureshi / Getty Images)
ISLAMABAD — The Oct. 5 test of Pakistan’s Hatf-IX/Vengeance-IX missile, otherwise known as ‘Nasr,’ shows its development has been completed and the command-and-control systems are in place, allowing it to be deployed, say analysts.

A press release by the military’s Inter Service Public Relations (ISPR) media branch stated the successful test was “conducted with successive launches of 4 x missiles (salvo) from a state of the art multi tube launcher.”

Nasr is a mobile, quick-reaction, four-round weapon system capable of delivering its nuclear-armed, short-range ballistic missiles up to 60 kilometers.

The test was witnessed by the Chief of the Army Staff, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kiyani; the director general of the Strategic Plans Division (which handles all aspects of the non-conventional program) Lt. Gen Khalid Ahmad Kidwai; and the chairman of the National Engineering and Scientific Commission (which designed the Nasr missile system), Muhammad Irfan Burney.

Mansoor Ahmed from Quaid-e-Azam University’s Department of Defence and Strategic Studies, who specializes in Pakistan’s national deterrent and delivery program, says the test signified the commitment to enhancing the Nasr’s effectiveness, but that two aspects stand out.

“It was the second test of a salvo fired from a four-round launcher, and its in-flight maneuver capability is being improved to defeat potential Indian missile defenses against artillery rockets and short-range ballistic missiles, such as the Israeli Iron Dome system,” he said.

Ahmed said this means Nasr has “passed the initial R&D phase and has been accepted and possibly been inducted into service by the Pakistan Army’s Strategic Forces.”

The ISPR statement’s mention of full-spectrum deterrence at tactical and strategic level, Ahmed believes, means the Nasr missile system has been “fully integrated into the centralized command-and-control structure through round the clock situational awareness in a digitized network centric environment to decision makers at National Command Center.”

Nasr is obviously India-specific, he said, and the salvo launch capability is a key ability in stopping Indian armored thrusts into Pakistani territory.

“The salvo launch demonstrates that Pakistan is steadily improving its counterforce capabilities against Indian armored thrusts as part of the Indian ‘Cold Start’ doctrine with the option of using low-yield, boosted fission, plutonium warheads in the possible range of 0.5 to 5 kilotons in case of a breakdown of conventional defenses,” he said.

It also “implies Pakistan has fully integrated the concept,and procedures to employ tactical nuclear weapons when, and if, required against the enemy, as part of its flexible force posture in the face of emerging and evolving threats,” says Ahmed.

Pakistan’s switch to the production of plutonium and stockpiling fissile material has been very topical, and Ahmed says the test show “Pakistan appears to have increased confidence in continuing to build sophisticated, miniaturized warheads for the Nasr missiles.

“Such tests are also designed re-enforce the message that Pakistan’s capabilities to produce miniaturized warheads for battlefield nuclear weapons have progressively matured,” Ahmed added.

However, Ahmed points out that “tactical nuclear weapons used to supplement conventional defenses would be only employed in case of deterrence failure.”

Given a paucity of funds as a result of Pakistan’s economic downturn, much of the military’s modernization plans have been postponed or even abandoned.

If the development of Nasr is complete, and if there are no other major non-conventional related programs in need of funds, it could mean finances could be freed up for conventional programs.

Analyst Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank said Nasr’s development has not yet finished. However, there nevertheless could be some movement in bringing the conventional modernization programs back on track.

He highlights the Army’s tank fleet, which has seen mixed fortunes. The T-80UD upgrade appears to have been postponed, but further development of the Al-Khalid MBT has continued and development of the Al-Khalid II is nearing completion.

“The Al-Khalid II is to be equipped with a Chinese 1,200 HP diesel engine with a German or South Korean gear box, and the Army has also evaluated the Ukrainian Kombat tandem-warhead gun fired anti-tank guided missile,” he said.

Generally however, the government has recently released a small amount of “much needed procurement funds for all three services” that should keep their modernization/procurement programs alive until the economy can improve further allowing for deals to be finalized.

“The Army is exploring acquiring a new wheeled APC [the Serbian Lazar 2], a general utility helicopter, and an attack helicopter from Turkey or the USA. The Navy is hoping to finalize a deal to manufacture four more improved F-22P frigates plus, if enough funds are available, new subs from China and/or Germany.

“The Air Force, on the other hand, hopes to acquire more F-16s, seal a deal for J-10 aircraft from China, and more transport aircraft, plus a new SAM system also from China”, he said.

 

[Rizwan Qureshi]

.. and we have just launched a mission a couple of minutes ago to Mars .

Its carrying the payment for the technology obtained.

 

[Secur]

Opreration Brasstacks had nothing even remotely in common with cold start. Op Brasstacks was one massive movement of armor and mechanized infantry(400, 000 soldiers) across the deserts of Rajasthan..Multiple army corps were involved and were all present in single theater.

Where as Cold start breaks a single strike corps into smaller IBGs for faster deployment, to present a smaller target for TNW (as oppose to an entire corps) and to hit the enemy multiple fronts simultaneously, while pivot corps carry out offensive defense against the enemy.
Cold Start is exactly the opposite of Operation Brasstacks.



There are no 'recent' additions to Indian nuclear doctrine.It has remained unchanged since its inception. The clause of 'attack on any Indian forces anywhere' has been there since the beginning, when it was formally adopted by cabinet committee in security in 2003.



Pakistani nuclear doctrine in ambiguous, even to its own ilk, which is not exactly a good thing in case of real emergency. How would one know if a red line has been crossed, when you don't even know, where the red line lies?



You aim test Indian patience by strapping a bomb to your vest, In hopes that your suicidal behavior will make Indians back down, speaks volume about your psyche!!



You are wrong!!
A decapitating first strike is far more plausible in India- Pakistan scenario, than it would have been US- Soviet scenario.
It would have taken an ICBM 20-40 mins(depending on location of launch and target ) to reach their intended target in mainland US, American early waning stations of arctic and Greenland and Aleutian Islands would give at least 20 mins warning of missile strike. American global satellite sys would pick up a missile flare as soon as missile would launch. Giving US essentially more than 30 mins to launch it own missiles..yet American chose to have massive second strike capabilities, like deploying majority of its weapons on SLBMs and 24/7 airborne strategic nuclear bombers..why??

Whereas flying time from India to Pakistan is less than 5 mins..Early warning radar will not even give 2-3 mins warning before impact. It is not humanly possible to assemble, programme and launch a missile in this window unless first two steps are already taken care of . It is theoretically possible to wipe out or enough enemy land based arsenal if enough weapons are launched in first strike.




Are you that ignorant , that you don't even know the reason, why India and Pakistan chose to keep their and warheads and missiles separately??!!



Yes it does, Arihant alone can launch a dozen one tonne nuclear warheads. In addition some Indian Naval surface ships have been modified to launch Ballistic missiles(eg Dhanush and Prithvi 2), mostly for testing purposes. But that does not mean they can not be used to launch the real thing. Before the end of this decade, two more SSBNs will be launched, taking the number to 36 SLBMs.



Do you think intelligence agencies are there to just twiddle their thumbs, do you know why, a couple of years ago, your govt got paranoid enough fearing a nuclear snatch and seize operation and moved all its warheads to different locations.
If exact location of warheads/missiles are known then one will not need to launch nuclear strike to take them out..precision strike can do the job. Only when general location of warheads or missile is known or the missile is sitting in its silo.. decapitating.nuclear strikes are considered.



EMP effect all electronic devices, that are not protected against it, may that be microchips in your missles or transitor in the comm equipment. Infact American have invested heavily in EMP protection as well as EMP generators.
An EMP can delay the launch by frying the circuitry and not all together stop it,,Once the damaged part is changed, the electronic is a good as new. But even changing these complex circuits will take hours, if not days, and I thought we were talking 'minutes'.





Depending on the number of location you have stored your weapons in addition to nuclear enrichment plants, major bases.. I am not the right person to do the guessing, rest assured there are people in both countries figuring out the same.




And if you stop supporting terrorist and stop mounting doomed misadventure like Kargil, we would'nt have to cross the border in first place.

Not really . Perhaps you didn't read it carefully then to understand it properly . Did you see where I mentioned " in its crudest form " in my post ? Cold start is a recent development over the Sundarji's doctrine which hoped to break Pakistan by rapidly mobilizing armored brigade/infantry into Islamabad's territory - a blitzkrieg like assault to separate the country into two , India however would soon back off , after seeing the Islamabad's warning and firm resolve to go " nuclear " to safe itself . After the Op.Parakram , IA again brought troops to the border only to back off again , your country again realized that going to war with Pakistan may lead to a nuclear holocaust and hence didn't cross the border , despite the atmosphere literally calling to " annihilate " the enemy , within the country back then . The Cold Start , with its short deployment and decentralizing of army command , again demands extremely short mobilization time just like the previous andhopes to fight a war within " our thresholds " so to not provide , PA with an excuse or reason to go nuclear , unfortunately this time again , it has been openly indicated by the army that the thresholds have been further lowered to counter " growing threats " and the deficiency in " conventional power " as well as " geographical vulnerability " . The problem there is that the conventional power of Pakistan Army is thought enough to counter/take care of any Indian offensive of such " relatively short " scale - since the Cold Start is not a plan for an all out war , the recent testing of Nasr and deployment of Tactical Nuclear Weapons is just there to make sure the thing " What if the conventional power isn't enough ? " is taken care of . Nothing more , nothing less . If Indians think that the fifth time , Pakistan's reaction and attitude would have changed , they are more than free to cross the border and face the dilemma imposed by their " own doctrine " on them . Just do not expect us to play by your rules , that mistake may prove costly .

Not really . The " No First Use " thing has always been there , I haven't denied that however the clause in question was recently added in 2003 , it wasn't present in the draft paper issued after the nuclear tests in 1998 . In January 2003, a Ministry of External Affairs press release maintained adherence to no-first-use, although with the condition that nuclear weapons could also be used in retaliation for a biological or chemical attack, or to protect Indian forces operating in Pakistan.[37] [37] Scott D. Sagan, “Evolution of Pakistani and Indian Nuclear Doctrine,” in Scott D. Sagan, ed., Inside Nuclear South Asia (Stanford: Stanford University Press, 2009); Ministry of External Affairs of India, “The Cabinet Committee on Security Reviews Operationalization of India’s Nuclear Doctrine,” Press Release, 4 January 2003, Ministry of External Affairs, Government of India So , why was it slightly altered ? To pave way for what ? Cold Start isn't really as new as you think .

Pakistani nuclear doctrine is not " unknown " in its entirety , you can have the basic outline on the Internet , the thresholds just are not " clearly defined " and seeing the results from the history . Who on earth would argue that it hasn't been successful ? When I said " unknown " or " not clearly defined " , I meant in the public domain because for obvious reasons , the people who should know , know it and would implement it in times of " emergency/crisis " . The simple thing to understand , without repeating again and again " the usual Indian high ground " and the so called " patience " used to justify/rationalize the cold hard truth that India has no answer to Pakistan's nuclear weapons and its successful doctrine , which nobody is ready to buy here , is that Pakistan would not launch nuclear strike on any country unless its " thresholds " or " red lines " are crossed - since we have every right to defend our country by every means . There's no suicide vest here , do not attack us for your own safety , we are firm believers in " Samson's option " , so if we are going down , we will make sure as have been at different times in history , would take the adversary too .

Again the US-U.S.S.R. examples are irrelevant here since we aren't even close to 10 % of their capability even now and you are talking about Cold War here . Russians and Americans even developed an extremely disproportionate number of " nukes " , the reason was the prevalent " paranoia " at tha time and the " uncertainty/not enough knowledge " about each others capability . Your question has already answered by @Oscar previously .

You are supposing that the TEL's will have no warning what so ever. That is whole crux of the point given earlier. If the Nasr does fly.. it also means that the rest of the arsenal is sitting at 5 minutes response time as well. Unlike the Russians and the Americans.. both parties have fairly good ability to tell when the strategic assets are about to be used. A decapitation strike entails that the other side be unable to react in time. But when that reaction time is shortened to less than 10 minutes for both..then the "footballs" of each nation are already there in terms of full strike. Moreover, this supposition sits on the basis that the CnC networks of both nations are exposed to a decapitation strike. When the reality for both is much different. In crisis situations , we wouldn't wait for days to assemble the whole package and then launch it , at ease . As soon the situation escalates , the strategic ones will be ready to go too , we would just be waiting for Indian response . How exactly do you make sure that entire nuclear arsenal or some fifty - sixty percentile of it neutralized to not pose a threat ?

Again , its not my fault that you aren't reading my posts carefully . I know that the warheads and the delivery systems are kept separately . I was just advising you to post " terrorist snatching nukes " in funny section because it makes no sense again seeing the defense mechanisms in place and the robust nuclear security since th beginning - looks good for some tabloid though .

Not credible enough , it is . Actually that well never proved except for some reports in the Western media and in those ones specially , which aren't considered reliable . I remember a funny story about Islamabad transporting weapons on carts back then . Unfortunately , due to the extreme secrecy surrounding it , their location aren't known and even if you get some Intel by any means , the adversary will quickly change the location . Alright then , what is the yield of a standard Indian nuke and what height are you talking about , to inflict such a damage over some area ? Even then , it can be assumed that the " location isn't really known " in the 37th largest country in the world in terms of area " hence an EMP strike has to cover an extremely large area to increase the probability of " successfully delaying the launches " to save the day for India . Some 50-60 kT nukes on both sides aren't going to do the trick without initiating the chain reaction that may eventually cause the " MAD " , again I see no winner here too . Let them figure it out then

 

[kurup]

As u said speculations it was tested in 2004 for the first time. Even some of European sources claim then that Pak has tested an ICBM as they believed its actual range is of ICBM but in Military nobody tells the real capabilities like who u claim yr ICBM's range to be just 5000 but according to Chinese its 8000 because a Missile with just 5000 range cant be called an ICBM.

Chinese can claim anything . The range of Agni 5 according to official figure is 5500km to 5800 km .

Any missile having a range above 5500km is considered an ICBM . Hence A5 is .

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Whenever i have read Indian's posts on Pak-India war scenarios, i always wonder, why Indians grossly underestimate Pakistan military capabilities?
In fact its a relief for us Pakistanis that Indians are clearly complacent towards Pakistan.
I really want to ask this question to Indians why they think that PA has only nuclear card to defend herself from mighty Indian Army in case of a conflict?
Anybody if can answer my query with proper facts and figures will be highly appreciable.

 

[ssethii]

If they do that(which is very unlikely that they will)...they will also kill millions of their fellow Muslims. for e.g. A strike on Dehli will kill nearly 2 million Muslims, A strike on Mumbai will kill 2.3 million Muslims....and so on.

we are talking about a nuclear holocaust here, what do you expect.

 

[Manindra]

Forget the past , this new warfare is different and dangerous . The best bet for New Delhi isn't to cross the border in the first place and start the whole chain reaction . Because if this time , the assumption of " Indians backing off after the tactical nuclear strike " doesn't work out and you continue your misadventure as per Cold Start , everyone's gonna be nuked , something known as MAD . India already has bowed down three time , due to the same nuclear threat , since now , read " 89 Op.Brasstacks , " 99 Kargil , "01 Op.Parakram and "08 Mumbai . So , well it isn't really an assumption now .

None of weapon can prevent a war except postponing. War is human nature & wait for counter weapon against nuclear weapon.

 

[Bratva]

 

[A.Rafay]

More clearer video! all four launches visible.

 

[Bratva]

More clearer video! all four launches visible.

WTF did I see from 0:16- 0:21

@Oscar @AhaseebA Is it really ours or someone else target hitting video morphed with it?

 

[Nishan_101]

I am sure that NESCOM, KRL and SUPARCO can easily build any missiles they want. So they should do that... for PAF, PN and PA...

 

[Bilal.]

WTF did I see from 0:16- 0:21

@Oscar @AhaseebA Is it really ours or someone else target hitting video morphed with it?

Wow wow wow! It hits the damn flags.... Bullseye!

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Chinese can claim anything . The range of Agni 5 according to official figure is 5500km to 5800 km .

Any missile having a range above 5500km is considered an ICBM . Hence A5 is .

Yes thats true and thats why i said 'speculation'. 

How can you claim to have a missile without testing it.

we have already done that kiddo it was 2004.