Pakistan: Christian women are considered the booty of war

[Awesome]

If this Sect is declared as Muslims, then We will be considering Holy Prophet (SA) as the Last Prophet , and these people will be considering the maniac Qadyani to be their Prophet, and still they will be calling themsleves Muslims .. ... And we should recognise that "This is not small issue. this Fitna is one of the Biggest Fitnahs of Islam"

And still if we allow them to say that they are Muslims , Then really SHAME ON US, that we were not able to stop them from calling themselves muslims...

As far as your last question is concerned, The Holy Quran may contain such ayat, but I have no Ayat of Quran in my knowledge that defines Blasphemy... .... If any one can contribute here it will be really beneficial.

Isn't it also shameful that you think Islam is a weak religion, that will fall apart, just because somebody else says "Oh my religion is Islam too".

The religion that stood the test of Hijarat, the test of Badr, Uhod and Khandak, the test of 2 crusades, world wars, famine, drought... The religion that Allah claims to protect himself... All of that would be zeroed just because a claim a few Ahmedis make? Buddy you're not marketing Islam here, but their religion by making it seem so attractive that it has to be forcibly shut down otherwise the Imaan of all Muslims would be zeroed in an instance and they will have no choice but to follow Mr. GAM blindly.

I think we self-confident Muslims can do without your advice on "shame".

You don't have to be a jungly person to be a Muslim or not be ashamed.

 

[Awesome]

Laws like the blasphemy law and restrictions on Ahmadis need to be repealed in order to send a message of tolerance and respect for minorities.

Along with that, I am in favor of tweaking the curriculum to explicitly discuss universal human rights and equality and respect for people from all races, ethnicities and belief systems.

We need a masses movement to embrace tolerance as well. Such an act in Pakistan would be a force to reckon with. The leaders will never make this change out of fear of backlash that there would be. However if there is a fear of backlash for not doing so the changes would be implemented.

Musharraf vaguely tried this, I remember he was on PTV and debating with Mullahs and the talk show became extremely enraged, he was taking questions from the public too. Finally he had to go off by saying "Pakistan main kabhi Quran aur Sunnat ke khilaaf koi kanoon nahi ayega" He backed off, pretty much.

This was at the peak of his power. And we know he has pretty much been the most powerful leader in decades that Pakistan has had. This sort of change in Pakistan will only come as a sweeping change. I think the media can play a big role. Tons of talented Christians make it to Rock bands in Pakistan, like the world famous Shallum (Guitarist), Gumby (Drummer). Their iconic image can be used to further promote tolerance, to humanize them and make them be acceptable.

Unfortunately Christians are also a poor community in Pakistan, and its so difficult for the poor in Pakistan to manage to do anything at all for themselves.

 

[unicorn]

Isn't it also shameful that you think Islam is a weak religion, that will fall apart, just because somebody else says "Oh my religion is Islam too".

The religion that stood the test of Hijarat, the test of Badr, Uhod and Khandak, the test of 2 crusades, world wars, famine, drought... The religion that Allah claims to protect himself... All of that would be zeroed just because a claim a few Ahmedis make? Buddy you're not marketing Islam here, but their religion by making it seem so attractive that it has to be forcibly shut down otherwise the Imaan of all Muslims would be zeroed in an instance and they will have no choice but to follow Mr. GAM blindly.

I think we self-confident Muslims can do without your advice on "shame".

You don't have to be a jungly person to be a Muslim or not be ashamed.

Sir!
Is your point is that do not called Ahamedis non muslims.
Can you clearify this Please?

 

[Awesome]

Sir!
Is your point is that do not called Ahamedis non muslims.
Can you clearify this Please?

My point is, there should never be a law that says they are non-Muslims as it is in Pakistan.

You can personally call them "Shaitaan ke bachay" and they vice versa it makes no difference to the reality as this is according to my belief better left to be judged by Allah not by you and me.

It is their religion, they can call themselves anything. Freedom to profess their religion should be every Pakistani's right.

 

[unicorn]

My point is, there should never be a law that says they are non-Muslims as it is in Pakistan.

You can personally call them "Shaitaan ke bachay" and they vice versa it makes no difference to the reality as this is according to my belief better left to be judged by Allah not by you and me.

It is their religion, they can call themselves anything. Freedom to profess their religion should be every Pakistani's right.

Thank you Sir for replying me.
I get your point very clear.

 

[Awesome]

My point is, there should never be a law that says they are non-Muslims as it is in Pakistan.

You can personally call them "Shaitaan ke bachay" and they vice versa it makes no difference to the reality as this is according to my belief better left to be judged by Allah not by you and me.

It is their religion, they can call themselves anything. Freedom to profess their religion should be every Pakistani's right.

Just to be clear, that just because you can, it is obviously not nice for anyone who has been through an inkling of civilization to even refer to your enemies as "Shaitaan ke bachay".

Disagreements of ideology should be done at proper venues and forums (this forum is not for discussing what makes the Ahmedi religion different/same or real/fake, btw). Whenever done so should be done with the utmost respect and in a dignified way. That is if you want anyone to take you seriously and not dismiss you as a jungly (which sadly many people manage to get Muslims dismissed as).

 

[Solomon2]

Freedom to profess their religion should be every Pakistani's right.

Freedoms are only "real" if they are enforced - that is, if the people are willing to chase down, imprison, prosecute, and convict those who would violate such freedoms.

Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who killed a Christian?
Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who killed a Christian if he claimed that the Christian was trying to convert him?
Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who converted to Christianity from Islam?

 

[r3alist]

Freedoms are only "real" if they are enforced - that is, if the people are willing to chase down, imprison, prosecute, and convict those who would violate such freedoms.

Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who killed a Christian?
Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who killed a Christian if he claimed that the Christian was trying to convert him?
Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who converted to Christianity from Islam?

you have never asked the same of indians, thats my observation, i know its not relevant and your original point remains regardless, but this is just my observation.

 

[Awesome]

Freedoms are only "real" if they are enforced - that is, if the people are willing to chase down, imprison, prosecute, and convict those who would violate such freedoms.

Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who killed a Christian?
Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who killed a Christian if he claimed that the Christian was trying to convert him?
Do you think Pakistanis would protect a man who converted to Christianity from Islam?

If you ask me those things should be irrelevant to a court of law. A lot of people would agree with me, many disagree. We need to settle this issue, perhaps enforce it too. Someone needs to figure out which side is more powerful now.

 

[flameboard]

I know many Christians in Pakistan that are living peacefully, but every country has stupid crazy people. This is not a united effort its just a bunch of retards here an there. The UN or Pakistan can't do much about this there is already worse stuff happening to regular Muslims and Pakistanis. Yes Pakistan can work towards better enforcing the law, and that is what we need to focus on, on a united effort to enforce the law.

 

[T-Faz]

“There is no God but Allāh, Muhammad is Allāh’s last Messenger"........now its correct.

LA ILAHA ILL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASOOL ALLAH

Who altered the Kalima.

LA means NO
ILAHA means GOD
ILL means ONLY or BUT
ALLAH means ALLAH

MUHAMMAD means MUHAMMAD
RASOOL means RASOOL (Loosely translated to MESSENGER) (OF)
ALLAH means ALLAH

 

[rameez ahmed]

Isn't it also shameful that you think Islam is a weak religion, that will fall apart, just because somebody else says "Oh my religion is Islam too".

The religion that stood the test of Hijarat, the test of Badr, Uhod and Khandak, the test of 2 crusades, world wars, famine, drought... The religion that Allah claims to protect himself... All of that would be zeroed just because a claim a few Ahmedis make? Buddy you're not marketing Islam here, but their religion by making it seem so attractive that it has to be forcibly shut down otherwise the Imaan of all Muslims would be zeroed in an instance and they will have no choice but to follow Mr. GAM blindly.

I think we self-confident Muslims can do without your advice on "shame".

You don't have to be a jungly person to be a Muslim or not be ashamed.

Brother Asim I never said that Islam is a weak religion.... it will remain till Allah wishes......

But how can you let a group of people say themselves Muslims, if they don't believe in the Finality of Prophethood of Hazrat Muhammad (SA)???... Qadiyanis have have created this Fitna.

Next time in future, if another maniac emerges out of Muslims and attacks some other Fundamental belief of Islam like Salat, Zakkat or Hajj and changes it , and says that "I and my followers are also Muslim and the way we are following is Islam " , Then how will you react to it.... Will you stop him from saying themselves Muslims or sit in your house and just watch the show???

if we don't tackle with this Qadyanis calling them Muslims now, I am pretty sure that in future some other Fitna like this will emerge to attack Islam once again ....

Qadiyanis have equal rights in Pakistan as every other Pakistani have. this is their right and we are no one to take that .. But their claim that they are are Muslims is Intolerable.. they are not Muslims in any way....

You quoted the examples of many wars and Hijrat to show how our great religion stood against those challenges. Undoudtely, had it been some other relgion, it would have collapsed. But it is Allah who protected us and His wonderful Religion.

But in these cases Brother, Islam was attacked by outsiders... In this case we were attacked by people who were muslims, and we have a terrible history about the sufferings we have suffered from the Fitnas and betrayals by muslims or by Munafiqeen who embraced Islam in the front but at the back were the enemies of Islam. We have many examples regarding this throughout our History..

So believe me if this fitna of Qadiyanis calling themselves muslims is not tackled well it will definitely damage us..

Secondly, Asim Yaar I don't need to Market this Fake group calling themselves Muslims... How have marketed this religion of Qadiyanis? Please tell me....

All I am saying is to not let them call themselves Muslims because their believes are not that of Muslims... This Fitna of Qadiyanis have diverted hundreds of thousands of Muslims form the right Path of Islam .. It is obligatory on us to stop them converting other Muslims in their fake and false faith... This they can do very well if we declare themselves as Muslims....

 

[rameez ahmed]

Rameez Islam, hadith says that for a person to be a liar its enough that he promotes something without verifying it.

In your case its you have heard from someone and you posted the claim with conviction without verifying it.

"Admi ka jhota honay ka liay yahi kafi ha k wo suni sunai baat ko baghair tehqeek ka agay barha day."


And i believe anything that contradicts Quran and character and actions of the Last Prophet of Islam Muhammad (PBUH) then that quote that statement and that narration can NOT be authentic.

Asim Aquil if you have remove my reply to this comment then please remove this comment as well, because it also debates on religious issue...

If you are nor deleting it then please don't delete my answer to this comment.. Its a humble request to you......

 

[rameez ahmed]

The fundamental belief of Islam is the following

“There is no god but Allāh, Muhammad is Allāh’s Messenger“

that's true. But if any one claims that Prophet (SA) is not the Last messeger of Allah, he not the muslim.....

"Muhammad (SA) is not the father of anybody from among you, but Rasul of Allah and LAST OF ALL PROPHETS"​

Surah Al Ahzab​

 

[rameez ahmed]

LA ILAHA ILL ALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASOOL ALLAH

Who altered the Kalima Shahada.

LA means NO
ILAHA means GOD
ILL means ONLY or BUT
ALLAH means ALLAH

MUHAMMAD means MUHAMMAD
RASOOL means RASOOL (Loosely translated to MESSENGER) (OF)
ALLAH means ALLAH

Its not kalimah e Shahadah... Its kalimah e Tayyabah