Pakistan can not sell JF-17: China

[MJaa]

Here it is from a professional source and JF-17 is an export fighter for China and it simply beyond rational to think they would not like an export order for a product.It's simply ridiculous

FARNBOROUGH: Pakistan and China eye export JF-17 customers


By Siva Govindasamy


China and Pakistan are eyeing international customers for their Chengdu/Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) JF-17 fighter, which is making its Western air show debut at Farnborough.

The countries jointly developed the aircraft, with the Pakistani air force receiving its first Chinese-manufactured examples in 2009. PAC also began indigenous assembly of the aircraft last year, and could incorporate western avionics, radars and other systems into the fighter from 2012.
Pakistan could have around 28 JF-17s in service by year-end, and eventually induct up to 250.

Both Pakistan and China are keen to export the fighter, which they tout as a low-cost alternative replace aged Northrop F-5s and Lockheed Martin F-16s. China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corp, which markets Chinese-made military aviation products globally, is in talks with around six potential customers, while the


Pakistani government has also held initial discussions with others.


"China wants to use the JF-17 as part of its plan to become a significant player in the global military aviation market, while Pakistan is keen for exports that will help it to reduce its unit cost at its indigenous assembly plants," says an industry source. "Negotiations have been ongoing for a while now and they will continue at Farnborough, which is a great opportunity to show off what the aircraft can do."


Industry sources add that China has held talks with countries including the Democratic Republic of Congo, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan and Venezuela, while Pakistani officials have held discussions with Egypt and Turkey.


A customer that commits to a "significant number of aircraft" could get help to set up an indigenous assembly plant if it is keen to help its domestic industry, say officials. This is similar to the arrangement with Pakistan for the JF-17 and a Chinese deal with Egypt for the Hongdu K-8 trainer and light attack aircraft several years ago.


Getting a suitable engine could be a potential hurdle, however, with Russia unwilling to allow China to use the Klimov RD-93 engine beyond the aircraft's current buyers. China's Guizhou Aircraft has been developing the WS-13 Taishan for the fighter for the past 10 years, and a JF-17 reportedly made a test flight using the new powerplant in March 2010. However, industry sources say the company is still not ready for mass production of the engine.

 

[foxbat]

^^ Mate, its not that JF 17 cant be exported.. Just that Pakistan can not do it since teh IP is owned by China..

 

[MJaa]

MJaa, Give me a source where the Chinese have taken the same stand as the Pakistanis. No point is providing info of what Pakistan wants to do. It is China which is objecting for such a sale. Anyways, link will be useful for what you have claimed.

No one is objecting to a deal as it is a joint project where no matter who signs a contract both nations will get their part just like K-8 where china signed all the deals but PAC got its share of exports

And yes Pakistani say matters because its not a licence production like Turkey or India (Brahmos) where OEM's agreement is required But a joint project where both Pakistan and China’s are 50:50” partner in the project

So it's ridiculously foolish to assume that this news is any wehre new truth

 

[MJaa]

^^ Mate, its not that JF 17 cant be exported.. Just that Pakistan can not do it since teh IP is owned by China..

Wakeup bro

Pakistan owns 50 percent of the project as much as china do so there is no point in such a foolish discussion of china having IP rights


China and Pakistan Push Chengdu JF-17 Fighter for Export


By: Chris Pocock

Two Chengdu JF-17 Thunders from the Pakistan air force’s No. 26 Squadron made the type’s first international appearance at the Farnborough air show. (Photo: Chris Pocock)

In the same week that the Chengdu JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft made its international debut at the Farnborough airshow, the product of this co-development between China and Pakistan was offered to Indonesia.

The Pakistan Defence Minister signed a defense cooperation agreement with his Indonesian counterpart in Jakarta. The list of countries that the Sino-Pakistan joint venture is targeting for sales is expanding fast: it reportedly also includes Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Congo, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.


At Farnborough, joint-venture partners Catic and PAC described the JF-17 as a multi-role light fighter with an “outstanding performance-to-cost ratio.” The two aircraft on display were ferried to Farnborough but did not fly during the show, and officials were reluctant to allow journalists into the cockpit to view the three multifunction displays plus head-up display, HOTAS (hands on throttle and stick) and other avionics. The aircraft were shown with PL-5II IR-guided air-to-air missiles on wingtip rails and ferry tanks on the centerline and inner wing stations, leaving the outer wing stations unloaded. Mockups of five Chinese stores were displayed next to the aircraft: a C802A anti-ship missile; an SD-10A active radar-guided air-to-air missile; an LS-6 glide bomb; a WMD-7 targeting pod; and a KG300G electronic warfare pod.

Program officials said that a development JF-17 is now flying in China with a Chinese-developed engine, presumably the WS-13 Taishan. All other JF-17s are powered by the Russian-supplied RD-93 turbofan. On the eve of Farnborough, a Russian newspaper reported the opposition of Sukhoi and MiG director-general Mikhail Pogosian to a further sale of RD-93s to China because the JF-17 is competing with the MiG-29 for export sales. At the show, however, Russian officials, including Pogosian, played down this concern.

 

[MJaa]

Pakistan offers jet fighter to Indonesian Military
Dicky Christanto, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta |

Pakistan Defense Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar offers his Indonesian counterpart the latest jet fighter called the JF-17 during his visit to Jakarta on Wednesday.


Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro responded to the offer, saying that further discussion would be conducted in October.


Minister Mukhtar was here to sign the Defense Cooperation Agreement between the two countries at the Defense Ministry.

“We will see it first before we decide if we have an interest in purchasing the aircraft,” Purnomo said.


He said the JF-17 jet fighter was the product of a joint production between Pakistan and China. The manufacturers claimed the jet to be cheaper and stronger than the US F-16.

Purnomo said he learned there had been 500 JF-17 jet fighters produced; 350 are allocated for Pakistan and the remaining 150 are for China.

“I have been informed that Pakistan’s jet fighter’s level is above the US F-16 jet fighter, as well as Russia’s Sukhoi. But we need to see it first hand,” he said.

Minister Mukhtar said the jet fighter project was a result of years of engineering improvements that was made by the Pakistan defense industry back home.


“We have developed our defense industry properly, we have prepared for those who plan to disrupt our peace,” he said.

Pakistan Ambassador to Indonesia Sanaullah, who also attended the press conference, promoted the product, saying the aircraft had met the requirements to be used by the Indonesian military.

The Defense Ministry is currently developing its own jet fighter project with South Korea. Dubbed the KFX project, the project is aimed at providing both countries with five jet fighter prototypes before 2020.

Mass production of the KFX jet fighter is expected to take place after the project reaches its break-even point of 200 aircraft units.

Bhatara Ibnu Reza, Imparsial’s research coordinator, warned that the Indonesian military should prioritize the improvement of its own defense industry.

He said if offers like that from Pakistan contributed to the reinforcement of the country’s defense industry, then Imparsial suggested Indonesia take advantage of it.

“I strongly suggest that we pay serious attention to rebuilding our defense industry so it becomes a strong backbone for the future,” he told The Jakarta Post.

In addition to offering the jet fighter, the Pakistan defense minister also tightened cooperation in the field of education and sharing intelligence on counterterrorism.

Both countries have also planned to conduct a joint naval exercise in December this year.

“We face similar internal security problems here. Therefore cooperation will enable us to tackle these problems,” he said.

The Pakistani defense minister visit is the latest, after China’s Central Military Commissioner, Guo Boxiong, visited the country in May.

 

[ramu]

Content in post#136 is about a year old. Clearly, times change.

And so is post # 140

 

[MJaa]

Pakistan offers jet fighter to Indonesian Military
Dicky Christanto, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta |

Pakistan Defense Minister Chaudhary Ahmed Mukhtar offers his Indonesian counterpart the latest jet fighter called the JF-17 during his visit to Jakarta on Wednesday.


Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro responded to the offer, saying that further discussion would be conducted in October.


Minister Mukhtar was here to sign the Defense Cooperation Agreement between the two countries at the Defense Ministry.

“We will see it first before we decide if we have an interest in purchasing the aircraft,” Purnomo said.


He said the JF-17 jet fighter was the product of a joint production between Pakistan and China. The manufacturers claimed the jet to be cheaper and stronger than the US F-16.

Purnomo said he learned there had been 500 JF-17 jet fighters produced; 350 are allocated for Pakistan and the remaining 150 are for China.

“I have been informed that Pakistan’s jet fighter’s level is above the US F-16 jet fighter, as well as Russia’s Sukhoi. But we need to see it first hand,” he said.

Minister Mukhtar said the jet fighter project was a result of years of engineering improvements that was made by the Pakistan defense industry back home.


“We have developed our defense industry properly, we have prepared for those who plan to disrupt our peace,” he said.

Pakistan Ambassador to Indonesia Sanaullah, who also attended the press conference, promoted the product, saying the aircraft had met the requirements to be used by the Indonesian military.

The Defense Ministry is currently developing its own jet fighter project with South Korea. Dubbed the KFX project, the project is aimed at providing both countries with five jet fighter prototypes before 2020.

Mass production of the KFX jet fighter is expected to take place after the project reaches its break-even point of 200 aircraft units.

Bhatara Ibnu Reza, Imparsial’s research coordinator, warned that the Indonesian military should prioritize the improvement of its own defense industry.

He said if offers like that from Pakistan contributed to the reinforcement of the country’s defense industry, then Imparsial suggested Indonesia take advantage of it.

“I strongly suggest that we pay serious attention to rebuilding our defense industry so it becomes a strong backbone for the future,” he told The Jakarta Post.

In addition to offering the jet fighter, the Pakistan defense minister also tightened cooperation in the field of education and sharing intelligence on counterterrorism.

Both countries have also planned to conduct a joint naval exercise in December this year.

“We face similar internal security problems here. Therefore cooperation will enable us to tackle these problems,” he said.

The Pakistani defense minister visit is the latest, after China’s Central Military Commissioner, Guo Boxiong, visited the country in May.

I just cant believe that there will be anyone fool enough to will take the words of a reporter (especially when no other media outlet has even remotely claimed any this like this) over the words of a country's defense minister

 

[MJaa]

Content in post#136 is about a year old. Clearly, times change.

And so is post # 140

Wake up its is not like Indian a street gangs making deals


Sovereign nations make deals and stick with it or announce any such change thorugh officals channels. unless you can provide a credible source no one will believe such a foolish claim

 

[ramu]

Wake up its is not like Indian a street gangs making deals


Sovereign nations make deals and stick with it or announce any such change thorugh officals channels. unless you can provide a credible source no one will believe such a foolish claim

Don't troll. Why bring India here and flame the thread.

In a 50-50 joint venture, even if I take your word for it, China's consent is as important as Pakistan's will and they will do so based on mutual agreement. If China decides not to give consent to Pakistan for the next 8 to 10 years, which is what this discussion is about, Pakistan is stuffed.

In spite of various countries showing interest, why is Pakistan unable to convert it to a sale?

One more thing : please do not teach / preach about how deals are done.

Credible source here is a media house in Pakistan and not some biased source. In my book and in many others view, the same media source is quoted for various other subjects for credible source. I can't help if you have a differnt opinion.

 

[MJaa]

^^ Mate, its not that JF 17 cant be exported.. Just that Pakistan can not do it since teh IP is owned by China..

Read this foolish claim before trying to defend it

The Chinese government did not agree with a proposal from Pakistan for selling JF-17 multi-purpose fighter planes produced by Pakistan and China jointly.

This clearly says no exports from china or Pakistan

Even biggest lie in this news

expiry of 10 years of the production

Pakistan is signing contracts in small batches of 40 to 50 aircrafts not in production years

 

[Silk]

I have asked the questions and the title is terrible wrong. In fact, China and Pakistan have divided regions where each will be active in selling. Pakistan will be the provider of training for all customers (hence you all understand that there will be a training squadron for foreign pilots in Pakistan). The rights are almost equally shared. Both are interested in export. Both are active in selling the JF17. For marketing I can add that PAF is the demonstrator in all foreign shows. So please do check track record and official source and not people that have no clue what they write. The same issue was with K8 selling. Some nations cannot get the American engine so China was more active in selling. If not then Pakistan was the one to do the job. In this case the engine is a different issue cause it depends whether Russia could sell Mig29. In that case there has to be alternative chinese engine which is not ready yet.

 

[foxbat]

Wakeup bro

Pakistan owns 50 percent of the project as much as china do so there is no point in such a foolish discussion of china having IP rights

Mate, you are not getting my point. I am not disputing that Pakistan owns 50% of IP. It may.. However in all joint developments, the 2 partners can not go and sell stuff as long as both partners dont agree. Which means unless China agrees, there cant be any other sales of JF 17...

For all you know this could be a result of Russian pressure to avoid competition for Mig 29s. After all, JF 17 still flies with a Russian Engine..

 

[MJaa]

Don't troll. Why bring India here and flame the thread.

In a 50-50 joint venture, even if I take your word for it, China's consent is as important as Pakistan's will and they will do so based on mutual agreement. If China decides not to give consent to Pakistan for the next 8 to 10 years, which is what this discussion is about, Pakistan is stuffed.

In spite of various countries showing interest, why is Pakistan unable to convert it to a sale?

One more thing : please do not teach / preach about how deals are done.

Well i didnt knew you will be feeling unsafe my example which is nothing but a truth.

Agains as you asked so i have to answer with another example so dont try to go on feeling unsafe again

In spite of various countries showing interest, why is Pakistan unable to convert it to a sale?

Your answer lies in the question of how long IAF is looking for MMRCA deal with all the offers and money?

and you ask such a childish questions and dont want me to teach how deals are done. Go change you childish behavior and act like an adult who knows the basics then i will stop

 

[MJaa]

Mate, you are not getting my point. I am not disputing that Pakistan owns 50% of IP. It may.. However in all joint developments, the 2 partners can not go and sell stuff as long as both partners dont agree. Which means unless China agrees, there cant be any other sales of JF 17...

For all you know this could be a result of Russian pressure to avoid competition for Mig 29s. After all, JF 17 still flies with a Russian Engine..

As far as i remember you said

^^ Mate, its not that JF 17 cant be exported.. Just that Pakistan can not do it since teh IP is owned by China..

happy to know that we are on same page about the IP now

Friend, beside this single source news from unknown writer we have dozens of Pakistani top officials and Chinese officials claiming that they want to export the JF-17

I will rather wait for anyone to come up with a credible source for this news before going haywire that JF-17 cant be exported

 

[ramu]

Your answer lies in the question of how long IAF is looking for MMRCA deal with all the offers and money?

and you ask such a childish questions and dont want me to teach how deals are done. Go change you childish behavior and act like an adult who knows the basics then i will stop

Thanks, my questions are childish. How old are you ? India expressed interest and evaluation of the jets was in the media. Can you show me a country that has actually evaluated JF-17s ?

Your knowledge is so high that you get in to teaching mode. Keep the preaching and teaching to yurself and answer objectively.