Pakistan buys 40 T-129 ATAK helicopters worth 2 billion $ along with 1 million assault rifles.

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The engines are the important bit. Pakistan was looking to acquire engine overhaul facilities for the Mi-17 turboshaft which interestingly also equips the Mi-35s.

Yep. The issue with engine MRO is that we will have to talk to LHTEC - i.e. Honeywell and Rolls-Royce - directly.

TAI seems to have gotten the export licenses for the engines relatively recently, which is probably a big reason why we've seen a serious resurgence in talks over the T-129 between TAI and PA.

But MRO is a whole other ball game and it isn't something TAI has a right to promise, not without express permission and means given to them by LHTEC.

 

[SQ8]

Yep. The issue with engine MRO is that we will have to talk to LHTEC - i.e. Honeywell and Rolls-Royce - directly.

TAI seems to have gotten the export licenses for the engines relatively recently, which is probably a big reason why we've seen a serious resurgence in talks over the T-129 between TAI and PA. But MRO is a whole other ball game and it isn't something TAI has a right to promise, not without express permission and means given to them by LHTEC.

Contrary to popular belief, it is open knowledge everywhere else that the Z-9s have not been purchased but sent over for combat trials and operational testing with us due to our varied environment and terrain. They are basically gratis and sent over to see if they can be offered for export and as a sweetening deal.

The ATAK is basically the backup to the Zulus and it all depends upon the Trump presidency. However, the Ah-1Z shares a common engine with the Leonardo 149 we just bought. On the other hand the ATAK brings very little commonality with it and besides a reliable supplier, not much more.

Still, the Cobras are really showing their age and we need at least 40 machines that need replacement eventually. Whether it will be ATAKs or more Z-10s is the question.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

It wasn't that good that is why it's not in the competition anymore. The rifles remaining the competition are without doubt the best rifles in the world. The HK and Beretta and SCAR and Bren not only expensive Guns but also the best. I think there are lot of chances of T-129 coming to Pakistan and I hope it comes with TOT. But MPT-76 don't have a chance.

The army might require multiple types for various operations. We can not also rule out requirements of other security agencies specially for Balochistan.

The Balochistan police is really ill equipped, where as the levies may also require some modernisation.

POF though is primarily for the Pakistan Army but it also needs to cover all sorts of domestic requirements.

If this is true (big "if" at the moment), I think TAI and SSM's approach would be to invest a portion of the deal back into Pakistan in the form of offsets and technology transfer.

It wouldn't be a direct subsidy. Rather, Pakistan could possibly assemble the helicopters, maintain full MRO facilities, and manufacture certain components. Those components could be looped into the T-129's overall supply chain and supply both Turkish and Pakistani fleets.

In short, Pakistan would pay $2bn for helicopters, but Turkey would re-invest $750m into Pakistan via different programs related to the T-129.

As stated earlier in the thread this deal is going to offset Mushak's.

PA along with PAC might have to pay some amount incase Anka parts do not offset the remaining to procure the complete TOT. This does not limit the prospects that most of various Turkish manufacturers investing in producing their equipment in Pakistan to keep the costs low as compared to Western companies to remain competitive.

 

[The SC]

..

If the deal of T-129 helicopters is finalized, what is the possible date of arrival of the helicopter to join Pakistan colors?

Turkey has 15 in operation and has ordered 50, so a good guess will be 2018 for Pakistan to start receiving he helicopters.

 

[Zarvan]

The army might require multiple types for various operations. We can not also rule out requirements of other security agencies specially for Balochistan.

The Balochistan police is really ill equipped, where as the levies may also require some modernisation.

POF though is primarily for the Pakistan Army but it also needs to cover all sorts of domestic requirements.


As stated earlier in the thread this deal is going to offset Mushak's.

PA along with PAC might have to pay some amount incase Anka parts do not offset the remaining to procure the complete TOT. This does not limit the prospects that most of various Turkish manufacturers investing in producing their equipment in Pakistan to keep the costs low as compared to Western companies to remain competitive.

I am also suggesting that Pakistan should produce more than one Rifles but MPT-76 didn't met our standards and it's not being considered. The 4 Rifles in trials are SCAR and BREN and Beretta and HK. MPT-76 is not in the trials. Yes T-129 is stronger candidate than Z-10 but still no deal has been signed for T-129 also until now.

..


Turkey has 15 in operation and has ordered 50, so a good guess will be 2018 for Pakistan to start receiving he helicopters.

We haven't ordered any T-129 helicopters for GOD sake every one stop following and commenting on fake news.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The army might require multiple types for various operations. We can not also rule out requirements of other security agencies specially for Balochistan.

The Balochistan police is really ill equipped, where as the levies may also require some modernisation.

POF though is primarily for the Pakistan Army but it also needs to cover all sorts of domestic requirements.


As stated earlier in the thread this deal is going to offset Mushak's.

PA along with PAC might have to pay some amount incase Anka parts do not offset the remaining to procure the complete TOT. This does not limit the prospects that most of various Turkish manufacturers investing in producing their equipment in Pakistan to keep the costs low as compared to Western companies to remain competitive.

Actually, TAI's leadership said on several occasions that it would be offering offsets to Pakistan as a means to secure sales, especially since (at least in 2015) it is unable to provide loans and financing options. Offsets would used as a means to make it easier for Pakistan.

I am also suggesting that Pakistan should produce more than one Rifles but MPT-76 didn't met our standards and it's not being considered. The 4 Rifles in trials are SCAR and BREN and Beretta and HK. MPT-76 is not in the trials. Yes T-129 is stronger candidate than Z-10 but still no deal has been signed for T-129 also until now.


We haven't ordered any T-129 helicopters for GOD sake every one stop following and commenting on fake news.

Bro ... if we can chat about the Su-35 based on news with unnamed sources, we can certainly talk about the T-129, especially when it is openly and officially under negotiation.

 

[Dazzler]

bull shit article.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Yep. The issue with engine MRO is that we will have to talk to LHTEC - i.e. Honeywell and Rolls-Royce - directly.

TAI seems to have gotten the export licenses for the engines relatively recently, which is probably a big reason why we've seen a serious resurgence in talks over the T-129 between TAI and PA.

But MRO is a whole other ball game and it isn't something TAI has a right to promise, not without express permission and means given to them by LHTEC.

Sir most probably Pakistan would not buy engines directly but through Turkey, this is due to limiting the threat of sanctions. This was the major issue not to procure the T-129's earlier.

Turkey understood that USA would try to block the deals of T-129's by offering AH-1Z's, hence priority should be given to safeguard supply of engines from UK without restrictions. For this they had to think big and they came up with procuring all types of engines from Rolls-Royce UK.

The prospects of this deal have made not just exports of T-129's possible but also ATR-72 ASW and HORKUS exports today. What this deal achieves in the future projects would be immense.

Today RR also owns Allison Engine Company which manufactures the F-35's engines.

Contrary to popular belief, it is open knowledge everywhere else that the Z-9s have not been purchased but sent over for combat trials and operational testing with us due to our varied environment and terrain. They are basically gratis and sent over to see if they can be offered for export and as a sweetening deal.

Sir,
Z9's?

 

[SQ8]

Sir,
Z9's?

Typo- Z-10

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

The 4 Rifles in trials are SCAR and BREN and Beretta and HK. MPT-76 is not in the trials.

Those are for the army...
MPT-76 are for others...

 

[Zarvan]

Those are for the army...
MPT-76 are for others...

We haven't sign any deal for either T-129 or MPT-76. This is what I am telling you over and over again. I want T-129 to come they are reporting 40 I want Pakistan to go for 60 but until now Pakistan has signed no deal for MPT-76 or T-129 attack helicopters.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

..


Turkey has 15 in operation and has ordered 50, so a good guess will be 2018 for Pakistan to start receiving he helicopters.

Sir,
The production capability of TAI is

" It is expected that TAI will be able to produce and modify 97 integrated aircrafts, produce 13 unmanned aerial vehicles and 411,680 units for the aerospace and defense industries each year."
as of 29th Feb 2016 new article
http://www.dailysabah.com/money/2016/02/29/turkeys-tai-invests-millions-in-aircraft-manufacturing

This might indicate deliveries to be earlier. If the T-129's for Pakistan are to be produced in Pakistan then late 2018 early 2019.

We haven't sign any deal for either T-129 or MPT-76. This is what I am telling you over and over again. I want T-129 to come they are reporting 40 I want Pakistan to go for 60 but until now Pakistan has signed no deal for MPT-76 or T-129 attack helicopters.

 

[SleepingLion]

1 million rifles? What is Pakistan planning!

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

I still have hard time believing in this news. Z10 has far better chances to join PA than T 129. Personally I would want T129 to be part of PA.

For comparing the two we have to consider these things.
1. Which one has more advanced technology and better potential future upgrades?
2. T129 has Longbow type radar if i remember correctly. Does Z10 has that capability?
3. Which one can carry more ammo as z10 has 7000 kg max takeoff weight and t129 has 5000kg max but its empty weight is alot less too
4. And offcourse the most basic question of all, Which heli will have uninterrupted supply of spares in the foreseeable future?

Missiles are not a problem as we can integrate turkish or chinese missiles on both helis.

 

[DesiWarrior]

1. Existing Cobras
2. Z-10s
3. Bell AH-1
4. MI 35
And Now 5th entry T 129

I wonder plans of PAA.

I have the exact same sentiments. It would be logistical nightmare to maintain all these platforms.