Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[kaykay]

Two things, firstly it's over 2000 miles not km, secondly the safety of twin engine is always a factor.


I would request you not to question his credibility, @Munir is a highly respected member and a professional for that matter.

My mistake. Though Gorakhpur to Oman is some 2500+ km(1500+ miles?) anyway Its offtopic so better we leave it here. Carry on.

 

[Informant]

Two things, firstly it's over 2000 miles not km, secondly the safety of twin engine is always a factor.


I would request you not to question his credibility, @Munir is a highly respected member and a professional for that matter.

Then he should be less of a cynic and more of an idealist. $5mil is nothing for a plane of F-16's caliber.

 

[Windjammer]

Here's a better quality video of the ceremony, according to ACM, these aircraft are in excellent condition and apart from securing the defence of the country they will be valuable for training as well.

 

[Tacticool]

How many flying hours are left on pakistani AM/BM s. which are being upgraded in turkey. will the jordanian supplied f-16s go upgradation?

 

[Donatello]

There is no issue with copyright issues. We can not afford decent second hand F16's. AMARG is filled with maybe thousands of F16's... Many nations would love to sell theirs MLU 5 F16's... We rather buy something that nobody wants for cheaper then scrap price and then turn them into operational planes thanks to cheap labor. The parts are just bought on the commercial market. E.q. Belgium has huge number of parts for sale... (smile). The only wrong part of the presentation is that right ow these planes are super duper... That is clearly not the reality.

I believe the air chief has stated that these f-16s would be improved further. 3000 hours life means they aren't exactly falling apart. F-16 is F-16. You take care of it, it will last. You screw the maintenance and even a new F-16 will have trouble. What i mean to say is, these are certainly better than the antique Mirage III/V we have. All that is needed is upgrade to better avionics, the full MLU and perhaps FALCON STAR. As a whole i am not in favor of more offensive US equipment, but a system that has been used by Pakistan for decades is always a bonus. Spare parts should be plenty, since Turkey might be retiring some units soon and/or have a large stockpile of spare parts.

Now, i agree with your last sentence. In the current form, these F-16s are not very healthy. Since PAF refused to take the USN units (stating that they were driven too hard) i am sure they would have thought the same with these RJAF units. They would have seen that these units have life and can be upgraded.

I don't know the exact details, but i believe these will be upgraded. When, I don't know.

 

[Munir]

Then he should be less of a cynic and more of an idealist. $5mil is nothing for a plane of F-16's caliber.

I think that a think tankmember/analistis not someone that is part of the crowd that loves everything what happens but looks at it very critically (not cynical my friend). F16 ADF is not that superb. Exactly how many are flying around? Nada. Even Jordans dumps them. AMARG has tons of block 30-42 parked side by side... I do not mind being questioned. But please do read facts and not react emotional. Thanks.

 

[elitepilot09]

You do not belong here dude ..... or start lying

@DANGER-ZONE

I'm not too sure why you say this Danger? :S

 

[Munir]

I believe the air chief has stated that these f-16s would be improved further. 3000 hours life means they aren't exactly falling apart. F-16 is F-16. You take care of it, it will last. You screw the maintenance and even a new F-16 will have trouble. What i mean to say is, these are certainly better than the antique Mirage III/V we have. All that is needed is upgrade to better avionics, the full MLU and perhaps FALCON STAR. As a whole i am not in favor of more offensive US equipment, but a system that has been used by Pakistan for decades is always a bonus. Spare parts should be plenty, since Turkey might be retiring some units soon and/or have a large stockpile of spare parts.

Now, i agree with your last sentence. In the current form, these F-16s are not very healthy. Since PAF refused to take the USN units (stating that they were driven too hard) i am sure they would have thought the same with these RJAF units. They would have seen that these units have life and can be upgraded.

I don't know the exact details, but i believe these will be upgraded. When, I don't know.

We agree. I repeatedly sais that the current status is not super (pretty sure less then our Rose Mirages which have better avionics). I trust PAF to make them a lot better.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

It was a sarcastic remark over the points you raised ... you made some good points there.

 

[Munir]

Here's a better quality video of the ceremony, according to ACM, these aircraft are in excellent condition and apart from securing the defence of the country they will be valuable for training as well.

Windjammer Saheb, I talked to Jordanians who were flying these planes. Real active duty pilot... I am pretty sure these are not best maintained planes. In the past I posted already the status of these Jordanian birds and many posters started acting hostile. The issue is that I cannot go into detail and how can I explain someone that does not know the status of F16 in different maintenance cycles? I know that the planes sold in much better condition from Holland and Belgium were also not very good... And those look a lot better then these ADF.

What do you expect from ACM? Tell you that these planes are not good enough?

 

[Armstrong]

Would you risk sending an almost falling apart ADF while you could send Jf17 with BVR?

So are you suggesting that we're gonna cannibalize all or some of these for spare parts ?

 

[Munir]

Direct 2000 miles plus distance isnt travelled by almost falling apart planes. Who made you a think tank?

My friend, I did not ask for any title. If you do not agree then there is the respected moderating team for you to ask to change it. I post here from what I know. I know that people from India think that LCA is 5th generation. Would you become angry if I told them on bases of facts that it is hardly 4th generation?

So are you suggesting that we're gonna cannibalize all or some of these for spare parts ?

I did not say spare parts for other planes but using them as spare planes in case others are not available or to expensive... I hope that settles the spare part.

The statement that a plane is still good for say x thousand hours is depending on many maintenance and usage factors. If you just fly as a passenger jet and keep adding new parts then it could fly a lot more. If you fly above sea and do some 10-12 G very frequently you might dump it after a few hundred hours. And we need to see how it was used in the past. We need to see what we can do to upgrade the structure to handle more hours etc etc

 

[Armstrong]

I did not say spare parts for other planes but using them as spare planes in case others are not available or to expensive... I hope that settles the spare part.

The statement that a plane is still good for say x thousand hours is depending on many maintenance and usage factors. If you just fly as a passenger jet and keep adding new parts then it could fly a lot more. If you fly above sea and do some 10-12 G very frequently you might dump it after a few hundred hours. And we need to see how it was used in the past. We need to see what we can do to upgrade the structure to handle more hours etc etc

So the prime rationale behind their acquisition seems to be to build up numbers and use these assets intelligently/sparingly !

Damn, Munir Bhai, itneiii bureiii halaaat aa gaiii hain hum par !

 

[elitepilot09]

Then he should be less of a cynic and more of an idealist. $5mil is nothing for a plane of F-16's caliber.

Informant, Munir is telling you and everyone else exactly what the situation is: The ex-RJAF F-16's are a good addition, but it's far from a game changer. Let's all put aside this spare parts nonsense and agree that new F-16s will serve a great purpose in a force which is doing the best it can given the funds that it has. More BVR capable jets go a long way in helping us.

The concern right now should be- when is the earliest that we can MLU these jets. They have life in them, but with a new engine, radar and structural upgrades, they will be a great asset in our inventory. As far as I know, we have surplus MLU kits.. maybe someone can shed some light on exactly how many we have used and how many remain.

It was a sarcastic remark over the points you raised ... you made some good points there.

Thank you

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

So, what will happen now is that these aircraft will be at the bottom end in their capabilities---so---they will relieve the aircraft being used in fata for strike missions. And those aircraft ( which are more capable ) will be available for other services.

So---in that manner---our strike capability and air defence will increase by default---because we have more of similar aircraft which can be the bottom feeders.

So---by default----it still is a game changer.