Pakistan Beware, They Are Cornering China!

[Malang]

May I have the liberty of quoting the following facts to reflect the psyche:
1) Chinese are happier than democratic Indian;

Happiness is unquantifiable..

2) In recent 30+ years, no Chinese are died of starvation, whereas as recently as some years ago there is death-garden tragedy in Bharat;

in 40 years+ many Chinese died!!! in USA no American died of hunger in last 50 years+!!
is this India versus China thread?

3) UN HDI, China stays many positions ahead of India; and India slides two position down per most recent UN report?

the top countries in the world are all democracies...

PS:gpit this is not an India versus China debate!!!

One Indian friend boldly speculates that I’m either a “commie” or “stay in Pakistan”. And you now conjecture that I’m commie agent.

I don't know who you are neither am I interested...

What a mentality!

refrain from personal comments

Facetious.

facts

It is Indian media that impairs themselves. Please follow the link for proofhttp://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/10587-why-india-media-also-join-lying-chorus-tibet-riots.html
and applaud.

is this thread about Indian media? and this cleverly doctored counter-attack by Chinese IMO.. I have seen this particular post in many forums..

Capitalism refers to an economic and social system in which the means of production are predominantly privately owned,[1][2] are operated for profit,[3] and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a market economy. Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ancient China didn't follow a market economy...

Exactly! Why the same “democracy” yields very different results in Norway/Finland than in Bharat?

Democracy in all three countries yields similar results but the govt and political will yields different results..

You mean that China, an authoritarian country, now has more people die of hunger, more pregnant women die of negligence every year than India that grants minimum right? If so, please kindly provide data/facts to broaden our view.

Did I say this?? India is following a system of governance which is at present the most apt for all nations and also reflects the changing times..
Chinese are following a repressive system of governance which curtails basic rights and is frankly inhumane IMO.
PS:Even if people were dying of hunger in China no one would no except the CPC!

 

[Malang]

Thanks for refuting ipf for me!

I didn't know I refuted him?

Because “if we don’t hate what we are not, we can’t love what we are”, - per a famous Westerner.

not good enough!!

Well said! Many are jealous like women in these Olympic days.

is this what you are fed?

Since Taiwan is a US pawn, and is under US protection. I’m very surprised that you don’t even know this simple fact!

US pawn? I am sure if the Taiwanese govt would have had control of China, China wouldn't have seen previous misadventures like Leap and CR and would have rather been at the top by now...

Please follow this for some glimpse http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/70148.pdf

1230 pages? No thanks

Who cares as long as it reflects truth?

why are you twisting the subject? You said here is an article by a biased Indian newspaper, I said it is a book excerpt!!!

 

[Malang]

So be it believed. I believe in results.

Results? Have you seen Finland/Norway? USA? UK? France? Germany? etc.

what was US in 1700s?

As per UN HDI, for instance.

again this thread is not about India... assume me to be a Finn.. now point out at figures..

Anything that is good for the people will be taken step by step, hopefully. Not the bad thing though.

I still don't get how is China following Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, Korea etc?

 

[Malang]

All those freedoms need a basic freedom to support: freedom to survive! This is a common sense.

as I said Freedom to survive is a misnomer!! A child with a genetic disease who will not live long is not the fault of the govt. so by nature he doesn't have the freedom to survive.. you are getting in Darwin territory!!

Funny! without freedom to survive what else can you do?

freedom to survive, in which country are you told that we will kill you or hound you???

Government's fundamental function is to make sure that its people can live.

NO

If people can't keep a live body, what to express?

What?

Do you think a person, dying of huger, his priority is to hold a political rally, not to fill his stomach?

Do you think a person well fed but who has no right to express would like a full stomach..
though Gandhi, Bhagat Singh et al rather wanted justice then food and often would undertake fast unto Death rallies!!

Do you think an illiterate, in general, can be more eloquent in debate, in expression of his idea, than a literate?

yes!! the famous King Akbar was an Illiterate btw!!

Condemnable, though it was 40-50 years ago. Then do you think isn't democratically elected GOI responsible for 40000 died pregnant women every year now, the death-garden now?

death garden? again is this thread about India?
do you really think Democracy and Freedom is responsible for these deaths??

Truly weird, isn't it?
But you death-garden story let us know this unbelievable thing; Your 40% illiteracy tells the ugly side.
In comparison, authoritarian China had 90% illiteracy in 1949, now it has 10%. What do you think?

This shows lack of political will not because a Human being has the basic human rights..

Let me reiterate your stand, Chinese are incapable of ruling themselves, electing their leaders and having the freedom to expression and by giving these most basic rights what they get is 90% literacy and no hunger deaths after past misadventures??

You tell me, Sir.
How about "soft kill", if you don't mind?

???

According to some of Indian friends' theory, it is CPC that killed so many when there was a famine. Why then it is not democratic GOI that killed so many when we talk about famine on Bharat?

?? GoI killed so many??

Do we hear something called double-standard?

Does the thread title say India versus China?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Heard of Hu Jia?

 

[gpit]

I didn't know I refuted him?

Not a surprise to me.

is this what you are fed?

what you demonstrated.

US pawn? I am sure if the Taiwanese govt would have had control of China, China wouldn't have seen previous misadventures like Leap and CR and would have rather been at the top by now...

no problem indulging in your imagination.

1230 pages? No thanks

That's a problem for many of you guys: you don't want to have a serious study of truth.

why are you twisting the subject? You said here is an article by a biased Indian newspaper, I said it is a book excerpt!!!

Whatever, as long as it reflects some truth.

 

[gpit]

Results? Have you seen Finland/Norway? USA? UK? France? Germany? etc.

what was US in 1700s?

That's exactly the problem with you: India, China, ... are not US, UK...

again this thread is not about India... assume me to be a Finn.. now point out at figures..

Why is not about India, aren't you talking about universality of democracy?

I still don't get how is China following Singapore, Japan, Taiwan, Korea etc?

Please read more then.

 

[gpit]

as I said Freedom to survive is a misnomer!! ...

As I said, it is the fundamental freedom to any kinds of human activities/other freedoms. It is perfectly pertinent to a topic regarding freedom.

Let me reiterate your stand, Chinese are incapable of ruling themselves, electing their leaders and having the freedom to expression and by giving these most basic rights what they get is 90% literacy and no hunger deaths after past misadventures??

Chinese use "democratic centralism" to rule themselves. Ever heard of that?

Tell me then why Indian people would like to elect a government that lacks political will, that cold-bloodily let people die of hunger, murderously neglect 40000 pregnant women die yearly even now? This has perplexed many of us. “Us” includes some forumers on other forums.

Does the thread title say India versus China?

Didn’t many of you (plural), including you (singular), passionately argued that democratic India is better then authoritarian China by electing their responsive and answering government?

 

[gpit]

Happiness is unquantifiable..

Do you mean all the people are the same happiness or sadness?

in 40 years+ many Chinese died!!! in USA no American died of hunger in last 50 years+!!
is this India versus China thread?

but you even want to drag it to US vs China, don't you.

the top countries in the world are all democracies...

Also the bottom ones!

Ancient China didn't follow a market economy...

you didn't mean CPC is controlling ancient China, did you?



Given your this type of knowledge, no need to debate withyou any more on this.

 

[gpit]

Heard of Hu Jia?

Yup. Also Mr. Dynaneshwar Sathawane.

 

[Malang]

Not a surprise to me.

?

what you demonstrated.

?

no problem indulging in your imagination.

? (tempted to say wear a pink....)

That's a problem for many of you guys: you don't want to have a serious study of truth.

!!!

Whatever, as long as it reflects some truth.

tell that to the Chicoms..

That's exactly the problem with you: India, China, ... are not US, UK...

why not?? Why do US and UK citizens deserve to have basic human rights? and why should Indians and Chinese be denied the same?
Indians and Chinese in UK and US do well, why can't they do well in their own native lands?

Why is not about India, aren't you talking about universality of democracy?

Yes India is doing better in democracy than it was doing in slavery!!
Taiwan is doing better than many bigger nations!!

Please read more then.

Xinhua/BBC? which is better?

As I said, it is the fundamental freedom to any kinds of human activities/other freedoms. It is perfectly pertinent to a topic regarding freedom.

nope freedom to survive IMO is a misnomer...

Chinese use "democratic centralism" to rule themselves. Ever heard of that?

Yep!! and it is a sham IMO..

Tell me then why Indian people would like to elect a government that lacks political will, that cold-bloodily let people die of hunger, murderously neglect 40000 pregnant women die yearly even now? This has perplexed many of us. “Us” includes some forumers on other forums.

People get the govt they deserve!!! what makes you think Indians would be better off under subjugation, force fed media, no freedom of speech, expression, no religion?? as I said Human beings strive for freedom rather than materialism..
Many Indians who claim to be upper castes are proud to tell you that their ancestors were sages clothed in tree barks subsitting on alms and immersed in meditating upon God!!!
Materialism is not happiness nor the goal of the govt of India...
I would chose death over subjugation..

Didn’t many of you (plural), including you (singular), passionately argued that democratic India is better then authoritarian China by electing their responsive and answering government?

Yes!!! Government wise yes India is better.. lack of political will is not dependent on the type of govt.. India was doing better than China till the 70s at least.. wasn't it??

Do you mean all the people are the same happiness or sadness?

No, but materialism doesn't equate to happiness nor does subjugation..

but you even want to drag it to US vs China, don't you.

No, but just to humour your assumption that this thread is about India and China!!

Also the bottom ones!

Yes of course in their dream to be Better.. no one wants to be caged you see.

you didn't mean CPC is controlling ancient China, did you?

How can a govt of the present control a land of the past

Given your this type of knowledge, no need to debate withyou any more on this.

BTW once again this thread is not India versus China remember?

 

[Malang]

Yup. Also Mr. Dynaneshwar Sathawane.

yeah what about him? He was lynched by the mob!! so? is it because of democracy?

 

[Logic note]

Yup. Also Mr. Dynaneshwar Sathawane.

Wow are u comparing the behaviour of Mad mob with your chinese Government ? how Honest .

By the way I am giving link for both the persons

Former ZP functionary lynched to death, 17 held @ NewKerala.Com News Channel

Hu Jia: China's enemy within - Asia, World - The Independent

Both are victim , one of a Mad Mob , where Police has arrested the Culprits and another victim of communist government .

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Gipit , whats the point of your argument. China is better because of its government and Indian system is worse becasue of democracy which results in poverty.

1. There cannot be a coorelation between poverty and governance, democracy is a way of life just like communism or rule of religion.

2.A fair comparisn can be achieved if you can compare China 15 years back with current India , since India went for much needed economic reforms much later then China, I am sure wwe both would have been in the same plane had we both started in the same time frame.

3.Yes, poverty is there and there are certain plaging issues are there. Again this is due to poor policy planing, public distribution system, How does this relate to democracy, any one can make wrong decision, Khemeer rouge did, Mao did.

4. You are assuming that the statistics you point out in order are going to be static. The rate of amelioration is happening exponentially and we shall achieve MDG within 2020 and eradication of poverty by around twenty five years now. You need to see the rate of change rather then basing your arguments in fixed line point of time series curve. What will be your argument when goals are achieved, still will you percieve that Indian are poor . What makes you assume that we shall not progress if history is to be quoted you progressed from a nation of dying farmers and hungr souls to where you are and you are comfy to assumption that this will not happen in India.

So base your arguments on more intellingent stuff rather then blah blah blah about Indian poverty

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Finally, as a donor to UN, albeit a very insignificant one, I naturally want more than any other body that UN employees, who live on UN payment, to abide by UN rules and regulations.

Your donation is not used for payment, their payroll comes from donor nations contributions not form you pocket.

What rules and charter are you talking about? care to be more specific.