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Pakistan begins talks with US for more F-16 and may be one more Oliver Hazard Class Frigate.

So aptly put. Unfortunately it seems PDF has also become some sort of Insafian catharsis forum where everything from the Navy’s gunboats to the army’s rifle replacement program is met with “Bajwa traitor” “bastard generals” “slaves of US”. These people have gone completely bonkers since the no confidence vote and I’m not sure they’ll recover from this anytime soon.

Kid military modernisation should be and must be done. But when the same bastard generals use to cry that daddy US is not giving spares or they have sanctioned us. After so much begging and getting a middle finger from US they went for J10 and now again they are back to square one. Since the bastards are again trying to appease US by doing utmost even if means that destroying own economy which afterwards they themselves will cry about.

Again, are you that STUPID - or so lost in your hate that you continue to assume that somehow I “lurve” the generals or have any stakeholders with them?

You aren’t hurting my feelings or proving anything to me by calling the generals or other establishment and military bigwigs names because I highlight problems with them and the system probably more than you ever did in your existence.

I just do it in a more educated and focused manner to address the real issue knowing that the F-16 is irrelevant to the problem while you are like a dog running after random cars just barking away because one car honked at you regardless of whether it is the same car or otherwise.

Yes I am stupid bloody civilian. And I will be more than happy to stop barking when I see that GHQ have sorted their shit or Civilian rulers put them in their true place.
 
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Its a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t “ - most objection to the F-16 comes from people with zero knowledge of aircraft operations , zero concept of lifecycle costs, zero concept of PAF resources in training and all stems from the hatred of the US role alleged in removal of PTI.

And their only reply - the only one they can present like a broken tape record is to go off on rhetorical tirades with repeated words “Bajwa, GHQ, cowards” and accusations.
They would rather kill me and feel empowered “men” and happy than actually have the guts to do anything about changing the factors that lead to the political events and establishment malaise.

So, basically - I think its better to let the PAF do what it is doing and simply not bother.
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The best course actions Pakistan can take is to sell all of its F16's to pay down the US$ debts that had ballooned to crushing levels since dollar shot up in prices. The use of F16's against Pakistan's only archenemy India is restricted and could subject Paks under US sanctions. Yet the F16's could no longer handle the threats posted by Rafales and even India's late batch of Su30MKI's. It's a waste of poor Pakistanis' money to please the Americans and to pave the way to pleasing retirements in the US for the Pakistan generals.

Surplus Block-25s and Block-32s probably.
Useless garbages and Pakistan is still happy to pay for. LOL..
 
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The best course actions Pakistan can take is to sell all of its F16's to pay down the US$ debts that had ballooned to crushing levels since dollar shot up in prices. The use of F16's against Pakistan's only archenemy India is restricted and could subject Paks under US sanctions. Yet the F16's could no longer handle the threats posted by Rafales and even India's late batch of Su30MKI's. It's a waste of poor Pakistanis' money to please the Americans and to pave the way to pleasing retirements in the US for the Pakistan generals.


Useless garbages and Pakistan is still happy to pay for. LOL..

I do not know what latest batch of Su-30s you are talking about. India is still shopping for a comprehensive Su-30 upgrade
 
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The OHP is preferred in terms of operator friendliness and maintenance over the F-22P.

Jordanian aircraft do have service life in them and commonality to existing aircraft. Surplus USAF stock will take a bit of integrating versus them.

The biggest advantage the F-16 brings is what none of members seem to ever understand.

A F-16 bought today can land in Pakistan, be refuelled and refitted to perform a combat air patrol the same day. It is that well integrated into combat doctrine and ecosystem.


Unfortunately, Pakistanis are generally not smart enough and as @nahtanbob pointed out - they don’t even know who to fight and what for. Just want to hate and kill everyone and everything they see randomly out of mental breakdown frustration because they don’t know any better.

If it means the F-16 and anyone speaking in favor of why it still works - so be it.

F-16, M113, M109, M198 - Wherever Pakistan get get its hands on these platforms, they will readily gobble them up.
All that is needed is F-16 in country MRO/Overhaul facilities to support long term. Indus Vipers anyone?
 
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Lets get a few things straight for hyperventilating people who are against this potential (and in my opinion, very unlikely purchase). This notion that buying these somehow means someone is a traitor or that someone is putting Pakistan back into the US dependence is just stupid. The traitorousness of certain generals doesnt really have anything to do with this sale (again, if it even occurs). Its not as if Bajwa is getting the F-16s himself that he will want them or he sold himself to US to get them. I have no love for Bajwa either or any Pakistani leadership (including most of PTI), but these acquisitions would have zero to do with US benefiting off Pakistan. Why? Because Pakistan already needs US given 1/3 of Pakistans 4th generation fighters are American, relying on US for spares, ect.

What this sale would allow is for PAF to replace 1-2 squadrons of Mirage or F-7PG. Pakistan has 180 3rd gen fighters still needing to be replaced. People are walking around here saying lets get more J-10 instead of these used F-16. While the J-10 may be more advanced than the F-16MLUs in RJAF they are still more than a match for any aircraft in IAF, except maybe rafale being block 50/52+ equivalent. When we look at the cost per aircraft, Romania payed $513M for 32 aircraft... ~$16M per aircraft. The J-10CE is roughly $40-50M per aircraft. Even JF-17 block 2 is at least $25M per aircraft. So 1/3 the price for the jets vs J-10 and the MLU is a more capable fighter than the block 2s. The cost savings are why you do this deal. PAF badly needs to replace their 3rd gen fighters. And RJAF has ~60 F-16A/B MLU. If they are up for sale they could be had at less than $1Bln. That would be enough to replace all the F-7pg left in PAF.
 
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Its a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t “ - most objection to the F-16 comes from people with zero knowledge of aircraft operations , zero concept of lifecycle costs, zero concept of PAF resources in training and all stems from the hatred of the US role alleged in removal of PTI.

And their only reply - the only one they can present like a broken tape record is to go off on rhetorical tirades with repeated words “Bajwa, GHQ, cowards” and accusations.
They would rather kill me and feel empowered “men” and happy than actually have the guts to do anything about changing the factors that lead to the political events and establishment malaise.

So, basically - I think its better to let the PAF do what it is doing and simply not bother.
If this news is true, and this is a BIG IF.....

Honestly, my only real issue here is figuring out how old these aircrafts are. Will it cost an arm and a leg to upgrade and arm them. What about the airframe? How much life span do they have left?

Side note: They're F-16s, so they're automatically gonna make India worried. In other words, the US approved this deal even if it compromises its relationship with India. My question is what was promised by whom, and how will it affect Pakistan's geopolitical/economic standing. Personally, I have a feeling this may have to do with the Ukraine-Russia war.
 
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If he was that bad I can tell you the other Pakistani rulers are disasters when it came to economic growth.

If Nawaz was as corrupt as you claim he would have palaces in the English countryside not dinky apartments. I am not saying the guy is clean or a genius,

On a side note I keep hearing about Pakistani elite has stashed away tens of billions in assets abroad. I do not have access to Swiss Bank accounts. All I have seen is a couple of hundred Papa John franchises. In USA all property records are public. You are free to comb the real estate in most expensive zip codes and check out for yourself.
He is more corrupt than you can imagine. Those dinky flats are in one of the world's most expensive area, a status symbol. Secondly the news is that they are in the process to get rid of dinky flats and buy a plush estate outside London.

Do you know his son paid £50 million to buy a property in London from Malik Riaz. Everyone knows it, including British Authorities.
I invesigated their sources of income in 2013, before the election, reached to the point, which now everyone knows, i.e. that money for the flats came from their BV company. Had report that Maryam is the main beneficiary shareholder in the company. I got hold of Imran Khan's number, at the time I was in and had contact with many famous Pakistani journalists. I phoned IK , the phone was answered by his Private Secretary, who is no more in the world. I explain to him that the copies of the submitted accounts for the BV companies of Sharifs can be obtained for as little as $3500 with full disclosures. But unfortunately , the man didn't get the implications of what I was saying, and his attitude and tone was so relax, which in plain English can be described as "We don't give a F" , so I just drop the idea, otherwise i was ready to pay the money from my pocket and obtain the information and pass on to IK.

If you look at the accounts of Hassan Nawaz's British companies.
until 2011 accounts, ut shows an outstanding loan of £1.7 million from a close family member which was used to finance the purchase of diff properties in the portfolio. There were Director's assurances that the Loan would not be demanded back in qualified auditor's report. This loan was for bigger amount in the previous years.

Despite the lofty claims of inherited wealth from Grandfather, the reality is that the old man never declared enough income for the extended family to live comfortably rather than build up properties all around the world including in Pakistan. So money has came from somewhere, it is clear it is not from legal means.
See the source of their wealth and then the Fat Controller lying in the parliament. In any other country, he would have been disqualified for life to lie to the nation in their Parliament.
 
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Bonkers is an understatement and more importantly, the anger and frustration is so misplaced and ignorant that it resembles a mob of uneducated villagers going to burn all women at the stake because one is allegedly a witch instead of people who apparently did get a 18+ years of education
Ok, lets say we have no knowledge of the Aircrafts or any other military hardware.
Many Pakistani soldiers are shaheed because during the operations or in dangerous areas they were not provided vehicles which were secure enough. Why investment in such vehicles is not important! Why so many Soldiers are shaheed regularly in various incidents!! How long before the Generals would realised the dangers to the common soliders' life!!
It looks deliberate ignornace to me, if it allows to continue for years and years,
 
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Man so all this regime change was to open these lines of old stuff's purchases from the USA!!
I am amazed people are really so excited to get old Jordanian F 16. Jordan itself a poor country is getting rid of their old stuff, and 6th largest and nuclear power in the world is over the moon for these crumbs.
Makes your head swings and your jaw drops to be honest .
No it wasn't. F-16s possibility was always there
 
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If this news is true, and this is a BIG IF.....

Honestly, my only real issue here is figuring out how old these aircrafts are. Will it cost an arm and a leg to upgrade and arm them. What about the airframe? How much life span do they have left?

Side note: They're F-16s, so they're automatically gonna make India worried. In other words, the US approved this deal even if it compromises its relationship with India. My question is what was promised by whom, and how will it affect Pakistan's geopolitical/economic standing. Personally, I have a feeling this may have to do with the Ukraine-Russia war.
It is my understanding that the RJAF F-16 underwent MLU in 2007-2009 in Turkey with TAI. They probably have similar life on them as the 15 ex-RJAF F-16 ADF which underwent MLU in 2014 for PAF i would imagine they have a reasonably good life left in them. And for ~$16M/aircraft getting a fighter of MLU 5.5/6 - equivalent to block 50/52+, that is a win. If you can get all 60, you will cut the number of 3rd gen fighters by 1/3 for very ~$1b. Far less than any other option out there, AND they actually would not really need much upgrades at this point as the cutting edge will be J-10 and Block 3s.
 
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