Pakistan begins talks with US for more F-16 and may be one more Oliver Hazard Class Frigate.

[Horse_Rider]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584830051631398913

F-16's will ONLY be further acquisition worthy if the recent upgrades are allowed i.e. AESA radars, new EW systems, structural enhancements AND new AIM-9 and AMRAAM C-7's (ideally D series as it's real compatible with AESA). The upgrades should be applicable on the entire fleet to stay relevant for another 10 years. I'd guess we would look for 25-35 more?

Second, our eyes MUST NOT be taken off the J-10C acquisition in numbers (90-120+). This platform can later be assembled locally and used for Stealth optimization testing later in AZM and incorporate both, TFX-J31 tech on it, creating local industry and saving $$ expense

They absolutely do have a problem selling the J-16s. This is why they never were able to offer an export version, even though it would be popular.

Tbh, if they wanted to (especially in the current situation with Ukraine - Russia), they can find workarounds for the J-15 / J-16's sale to Pakistan. I personally think it may be the sensor suite that may not be on par with what's on the J-10C / JFT (miniaturized J-20 tech). So the PAF may skip these or would wait to acquire until these get on par with Western competition (F-15 / F-18). Their need will truly arise around Karachi if India acquires F-18's.

 

[That Guy]

F-16's will ONLY be further acquisition worthy if the recent upgrades are allowed i.e. AESA radars, new EW systems, structural enhancements AND new AIM-9 and AMRAAM C-7's (ideally D series as it's real compatible with AESA). The upgrades should be applicable on the entire fleet to stay relevant for another 10 years. I'd guess we would look for 25-35 more?

Second, our eyes MUST NOT be taken off the J-10C acquisition in numbers (90-120+). This platform can later be assembled locally and used for Stealth optimization testing later in AZM and incorporate both, TFX-J31 tech on it, creating local industry and saving $$ expense



Tbh, if they wanted to (especially in the current situation with Ukraine - Russia), they can find workarounds for the J-15 / J-16's sale to Pakistan. I personally think it may be the sensor suite that may not be on par with what's on the J-10C / JFT (miniaturized J-20 tech). So the PAF may skip these or would wait to acquire until these get on par with Western competition (F-15 / F-18). Their need will truly arise around Karachi if India acquires F-18's.

That's a big IF though. The India navy has traditionally operated Migs for its carriers, so they may not want to adopt a totally new system when they can just get more advanced Migs.

Even if they were to go for F-18, PN may still wait to acquire next generation fighters from China, namely the Navalized version of the FC-31. Meanwhile, the Navy could increase their orders for more advanced JF-17s.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, Azm is dead. Pakistan is now looking at buying either the FC-31 and/or the TF-X with Pakistan specific modifications. Azm was far too ambitious for Pakistan, when Pakistan didn't even have the basic technical knowledge to even begin designing a fifth generation fighters.

I'm also glad they downgraded from aviation city to aviation cluster. The A-city project was also too grand, and PAF simply didn't have the funding. A-cluster is far more realistic, and still ambitious; it has the potential to transform Pakistan's aviation sector into a giant, even with the downgrade in ambition.

 

[Horse_Rider]

That's a big IF though. The India navy has traditionally operated Migs for its carriers, so they may not want to adopt a totally new system when they can just get more advanced Migs.

Even if they were to go for F-18, PN may still wait to acquire next generation fighters from China, namely the Navalized version of the FC-31. Meanwhile, the Navy could increase their orders for more advanced JF-17s.

Also, as far as I'm concerned, Azm is dead. Pakistan is now looking at buying either the FC-31 and/or the TF-X with Pakistan specific modifications. Azm was far too ambitious for Pakistan, when Pakistan didn't even have the basic technical knowledge to even begin designing a fifth generation fighters.

I'm also glad they downgraded from aviation city to aviation cluster. The A-city project was also too grand, and PAF simply didn't have the funding. A-cluster is far more realistic, and still ambitious; it has the potential to transform Pakistan's aviation sector into a giant, even with the downgrade in ambition.

With Russia - Ukraine war, Migs and majority of the Russian defense equipment has become Tier III or irrelevant (for countries who can pay $$). India will change platforms. I think the issue is if it's Rafale or F-18 / F16-21.

Pakistan can get J-31 but it would keep them for specialized roles and won't sustain it as a workhorse like F-16/J-10/JFT. For that, Pakistan should acquire a J-10 manufacturing line (China doesn't want to build more so it should be cheaper), assemble / later develop majority of its J-10's locally and turn the same airframe stealthy with Chinese help and use TFX-J-31 tech as need be. Standardize delta wing platform from 4++ gen to 5th by 2030 and re-brand AZM. Then acquiring some j-31's as compliment would make sense.

- The best mix IMO is 110 F-16's (all upgraded to block 70+ or close to it, AESA and AMRAAM C-7 / D's a must with AIM9X latest, we can accomplish it by buying used F-16's from various nations now, if USA approved).
- J-10CP's - 120 (Ideally 150 would do).
- JFT all block convert to III's (or with an AESA and PL-15): 200
- 2 Naval squadrons / future 5th Gen. Older fleet of Mirages not needed to count here,
Total: 430-470 4th gen+. This is some force!

 

[That Guy]

With Russia - Ukraine war, Migs and majority of the Russian defense equipment has become Tier III or irrelevant (for countries who can pay $$). India will change platforms. I think the issue is if it's Rafale or F-18 / F16-21.

Pakistan can get J-31 but it would keep them for specialized roles and won't sustain it as a workhorse like F-16/J-10/JFT. For that, Pakistan should acquire a J-10 manufacturing line (China doesn't want to build more so it should be cheaper), assemble / later develop majority of its J-10's locally and turn the same airframe stealthy with Chinese help and use TFX-J-31 tech as need be. Standardize delta wing platform from 4++ gen to 5th by 2030 and re-brand AZM. Then acquiring some j-31's as compliment would make sense.

A vast majority of the fighting is still being done with Soviet gear on both sides, so it's not all bad.

Russian gear has always been considered second or third place after the US/EU and more recently China. It's why they're so cheap and directed towards African, Asian, and Latin American nations...basically the developing world.

I don't know if Pakistan can afford a J-10 manufacturing or even an assembly line. Heck, I don't think China would be willing to do a big enough ToT for it to even be worth it for Pakistan, as that is usually the goal with manufacturing lines. The Chinese are money oriented businessmen first and foremost, and pouring money into Pakistan (as seen by CPEC to a certain degree) is a money sink with little to no return on investment (CPEC almost certainly put a bitter taste in China's mouth, re; corruption in Pakistan).

As for the FC-31, honestly we don't know too much about it other than it's a 5th Gen fighter air craft, and a few pictures which are used by everyone to speculate about its capabilities. We do know that a land, naval, and export variant are being developed for it. Much like with the J-10CP, we could see a Pakistan specific version, if Pakistan chooses to go down this route.

 

[MultaniGuy]

JF-17 was really a gift from China to Pakistan, to give Pakistan something to work on, the chassis.

 

[Trango Towers]

JF-17 was really a gift from China to Pakistan, to give Pakistan something to work on, the chassis.
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Oh dear...if only u knew. Its sad because you are not silly