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Pakistan baits Russia as no big ideas drive Delhi-Moscow ties

arp2041

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If it happens this will definitely be a first for Pakistan and Russia. The buzz doing the rounds is a visit by President Putin to Islamabad sometime this September. The Pakistanis claim dates have been finalized although the Russians are yet to confirm. But the presence in Islamabad recently of Moscow's top envoy on Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov, suggests both sides are working towards a visit.

Why now? The reach out is driven by a host of factors. Current thinking in Moscow may be seeing Pakistan as part of the Solution (as well as the Problem) to stabilizing Afghanistan. China has probably been pushing Moscow in that direction for some time. The downward graph in Islamabad's relations with Washington are another reason.

But Moscow may not be willing to fund Pakistan in the manner Uncle Sam has been doing. There could be offers of some military aid, arms and ammunition, maybe not T-90 tanks but helicopters definitely. Moscow may also be willing to go along with China's transfer of military aircraft powered by Russian engines to Pakistan.

But any outreach to Pakistan would have to be weighed very carefully against its possible impact on India, South Asia's heavyweight. New Delhi (along with China) remains a major customer for Russian military equipment. Indian orders have kept sectors of Russia's otherwise moribund defence industry in business. The Indian economy is bigger and more diversified than Russia's (which remains dependent on oil and gas), and India remains a key partner in the BRIC and RIC forums.

Nevertheless, relations with India have stagnated. There are no big ideas driving the relationship, no fancy trade figures. Increasingly India is diversifying its arms purchases, and the civil nuclear programme faces uncertainties (although the Russians are the biggest beneficiaries so far). But as a sovereign nation India has every right to look at its interests, a position that is at odds with Moscow's perhaps paternalistic view of India.

The two sides have to work through these issues. But Moscow (at least in the near term) may not want to go the whole hog in cultivating Pakistan. For one, don't expect Pakistan's early entry into the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO). Considering the lack of any achievement so far, even China is known to be disinclined to admit its "all weather ally". So no Pakistan means no India (which is fair).

One last point (which may well knock all that I've written above). The Russians will be paranaoid about security for Putin and given the situation in Islamabad (where even President Zardari is rarely known to be seen in public), one wonders if this visit could happen at all. Maybe Putin and Zardari could schedule a summit on neutral (more secure) ground?

IBNLive : Surya Gangadharan's Blog : Pakistan baits Russia as no big ideas drive Delhi-Moscow ties
 
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What about the nuclear reactors deal with russia ? We don't have one with USA yet but we already have deals with the russians and the 50 billion dollar + Pak-fa deal ? Also the Brahmos .A lot is happening behind the scenes , it's just that the media is giving more attention to US-Indo relations rather than Indo-Russia relations as the former seems to be the flavour of current times .

India just bought sukhoi super 100 jets as well .
 
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Looks like no big ideas to drive Surya Ganghadharan. Someone needs to tell him that existing defence deals are more than enough to keep the tie intact for good years to come. Add to that existing & future projects in civil nuclear field... there are enough goodies to keep 'em happy!!
 
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What about the nuclear reactors deal with russia ? We don't have one with USA yet but we already have deals with the russians and the 50 billion dollar + Pak-fa deal ? Also the Brahmos .A lot is happening behind the scenes , it's just that the media is giving more attention to US-Indo relations rather than Indo-Russia relations as the former seems to be the flavour of current times .

India just bought sukhoi super 100 jets as well .

The issue, i think the author is trying to raise is that Russia is moving somewhat closer to Pak than the days of former USSR when it maintained good distance with Pak & keep India happy, the case in being the sale of RD-93 engines for JF-17 or Russian insistance on including Pak as well in SCO, though no doubt Indo-Russian relations are good but what if India moves more & more closer to US at the cost of Russia, this will certainly make Russia think if it really want to keep Pak at bay?
 
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The issue, i think the author is trying to raise is that Russia is moving somewhat closer to Pak than the days of former USSR when it maintained good distance with Pak & keep India happy, the case in being the sale of RD-93 engines for JF-17 or Russian insistance on including Pak as well in SCO, though no doubt Indo-Russian relations are good but what if India moves more & more closer to US at the cost of Russia, this will certainly make Russia think if it really want to keep Pak at bay?

i don't think that will have any impact on India's relationship with Russia. India's foreign policy has never been ''either you are with us or against us''. We never had a problem when Russia started improving it's ties with China,,, & that improved ties between the two countries never effected our ties with Russia. Same way we have a good rapport going with Israel, Iran & Arab countries. Now.. that is what i call maintaining fine balance. I know.. we cusrse our leaders a lot for various things, & justifiably so.. but when it comes to intl diplomacy..they do know what they are doing & i respect them for that!!
 
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No big deals?

250-300+ 5th gen fighters
45-100 MTA
MiG-29UPG
MIG-29K/KUB for carriers 45+
An-32UPG
2-3 Massive nuke plants

These deals are the tip of the iceberg but alone amount to $60-70BN USD alone. This isn't enough?? Pakistan can match this? Please!
 
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What about ONGC Videsh stakes in various oil and gas fields ?? New nuclear reactors ??? FGFA/PakFa ??? Brahmos air launched verion and brahmos 2 ? MRTA ??? Super Sukhoi ?? INS Chakra ?? INS Vikramaditya ?? Talwar class frigates ??? WTF can Pakistan do to woe Russia ???...
 
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How ironic that the Indians themselves don't see what they are proving here: the only 'interest' Russia has in India is the $$$.

Since the end of the Cold War, there is no strategic or ideological alignment of Indian and Russian interests. In fact, India is slowly but surely shifting into the US orbit.
 
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How ironic that the Indians themselves don't see what they are proving here: the only 'interest' Russia has in India is the $$$.

Since the end of the Cold War, there is no strategic or ideological alignment of Indian and Russian interests. In fact, India is slowly but surely shifting into the US orbit.

Still though we don't sell our land to other countries to come and make bases and then later bomb us. Secondly Russia also knows is to which country supported the US all this time. As for India, it has always stood with Russia and Russia has always stood by us in times of need. Unlike other countries who constantly change beds we don't.
 
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How ironic that the Indians themselves don't see what they are proving here: the only 'interest' Russia has in India is the $$$.

Since the end of the Cold War, there is no strategic or ideological alignment of Indian and Russian interests. In fact, India is slowly but surely shifting into the US orbit.

I think it is not true to say India is in the US "orbit", India remains quite friendly with the Russians.

Russia is one country with which India has no strategic divergences.
 
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so if india buys weapons from russia does it forbid russians to develop ties with others? The article and comments show something burning.
 
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I think it is not true to say India is in the US "orbit",

Not yet. That is why I said 'shifting into'. Slowly but surely, India is moving towards that role.

India remains quite friendly with the Russians.

The relationship has deteriorated into one of customer-supplier, downgraded from the strategic alliance of the Cold War era.

Russia is one country with which India has no strategic divergences.

Here's one counter example: US/NATO presence in Afghanistan.
 
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But Moscow may not be willing to fund Pakistan in the manner Uncle Sam has been doing. There could be offers of some military aid, arms and ammunition, maybe not T-90 tanks but helicopters definitely. Moscow may also be willing to go along with China's transfer of military aircraft powered by Russian engines to Pakistan.
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One last point (which may well knock all that I've written above). The Russians will be paranaoid about security for Putin and given the situation in Islamabad (where even President Zardari is rarely known to be seen in public), one wonders if this visit could happen at all. Maybe Putin and Zardari could schedule a summit on neutral (more secure) ground?

IBNLive : Surya Gangadharan's Blog : Pakistan baits Russia as no big ideas drive Delhi-Moscow ties

Out of the whole article with a typical Indian bias, I find two point hilarious and worth commenting.

Indians think Pakistan is 'financed' by US. Should I laugh or cry on this? A nation of 180 million people (if going by full exaggeration of this myth called 'aid') cant be run by just $1.8 billion!! First of all this is a very exaggerated figure. The total aid given in the last decade is only a few millions. Most of that money tagged as 'aid' is Coalition Support Funds. This myth is firmed up by constant lying of Us providing aid to Pakistan.

The other point is even more hilarious. Just recently Turkish PM visited. Chinese FM also came and EU Trade Commissioner is on her way. I dont know why Indians are so detached from reality.
 
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How ironic that the Indians themselves don't see what they are proving here: the only 'interest' Russia has in India is the $$$.

Since the end of the Cold War, there is no strategic or ideological alignment of Indian and Russian interests. In fact, India is slowly but surely shifting into the US orbit.

We simply acknowledge the reality. Interest prevails.

You can keep believing in higher than mountain and deeper than sea philosophy.
 
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and in the end writer says Russians may not be satisfied with the security and suggest a neutral place lol. Too much hate..

Out of the whole article with a typical Indian bias, I find two point hilarious and worth commenting.

Indians think Pakistan is 'financed' by US. Should I laugh or cry on this? A nation of 180 million people (if going by full exaggeration of this myth called 'aid') cant be run by just $1.8 billion!! First of all this is a very exaggerated figure. The total aid given in the last decade is only a few millions. Most of that money tagged as 'aid' is Coalition Support Funds. This myth is firmed up by constant lying of Us providing aid to Pakistan.

The other point is even more hilarious. Just recently Turkish PM visited. Chinese FM also came and EU Trade Commissioner is on her way. I dont know why Indians are so detached from reality.

may be they have bad intentions to spoil the developing and growing relations. You know they can go cheap to great extents.
 
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