'Pakistan at disadvantage to maintain military balance'

[EagleEyes]

Pakistani problems when compared to India's are simply humogous, even with its smaller size. india has got better everything, I fail to see your point

When you say better systems, there isn't whole lot of difference. It then all comes down to strategy and tactics. Pakistan being a defensive force will be hurt less.

 

[HASEEB66]

largest number of people living in slums more than hundred million people how much time do you think india needs to bring them anywhere near lower class strata..these are only a few thigns and only those that come to the limelight..i have each and every fact and figure to support my claims and each and every internet link available..this is not a problem for anyone but FOR EVERYONE AND WE ARE WASTING GEBERATIONS ON GENERATION..THE EUROPE WAS LIVING IN EVEN DARKER AGES THAN US BEFORE SECOND WORLD WAR BUT THEN THEY REALISED...but we have'nt..because we are not ready to sacrifice ...compromise..after second world war there was a church in Berlin that was destroyed in the war..after the war half of the people said let it be there as it would be a lesson for future generations half of the people said destroy and build a new one as we want to forget it..the government let the old one there as it was and with it built a new one and it is stil there

 

[HASEEB66]

nai samjhey hain woh humain to kya jaata hai...
niklein jis din maidan mein hum jhoom ke dhartey boaley ge yeh kadam choom ke
joo sab kerte hain yaara woh kyun hum kerein
yahan ke hum sikander
harey baaazi ko jeetna humain aata hai..yeh gulyaan apney yeh rustey apne...
nahin samjhey hain woh humain tu kya jaata hai
harey baazi koo jeetna humain aata hai..

 

[Adux]

Haseeb,

Grow Up kid, What has HIV rates got to do with Defence Expenditure. This is what I call ranting. What has Cricket got to do with anything, Some stupid Indian did something to you and you generalize a whole population. What are you doing in the UK, why are you not in Pakistan, Why not help its progress.

Let me Humour you Pakistan is better than India, India is filled with HIV infested Dark small people.I hope that makes you feel better.

 

[Adux]

my friend you gave me a few links...i never thought you can be so immature your inequalities link is out of my mind...can you kindly explain it...as you were trying to shut me up with links here are few of a thousand links i already have in my blog..please check them and compare them with yours...most of them are indian links and must make sense to you..

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4846

http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/sep/22josy.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Railways

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Railways

http://www.euindia.info/en/about_eu-india/road_safety_in_india/

http://www.indiaresource.org/news/2004/1063.html

some of them are also of interest for bull sahab to prove their IAF accident rates..

i have many more i will give you adux tommorow but please dont be offended..

i dont watch movies i just hear which indian film is a copy of which indian movie..
and just by learing the names of baloch and nwfp doesnt mean anything...there is no internal problem of baugti anymore hes dead and its over only he was the one reaing voices again a defeat RAW had lot of expectations from him...and there is still an operation going in north waziristan and and thew operation is south waziristan is long over...BUT I REMEMBER THERE ARE 21 FREEDOM MOVEMENTS IN INDIA..every developing country has problems you wirte but problems of this nature...and it is true you still believe higher weapons are a sureity for victory than its your sense of intellegence..but anyways 5,000 men with ak-47 in kargil vs 30,000 men with chemical shelling tanks air support lost on the military and strategic front but i blieve strongly your zee tv must have told you some thing else...kargil was a political defeat for pakistan but a huge military and strategic victory...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow/724898.cms
:army: SIR have a coffe

Whatever floats your boat mate, People like you come to the forum very often. I cant be bothered

 

[Adux]

When you say better systems, there isn't whole lot of difference. It then all comes down to strategy and tactics. Pakistan being a defensive force will be hurt less.

Pakistan maybe a defensive force, But It has been more adventorous than India. Honestly if you guys had more resources you might defeat us, The biggest advantage on your side is POLITICAL WILL, I have to give you that. Strategy and Tactics, Lets accept the fact; there are brilliant men on both sides of the border, One who has more resources and support will Win.

Adu

 

[Keysersoze]

Attrition rate is high, ok i give it to you. But how do you calculate it? By comparing the no of planes that have crashed in a year or by calculating the no of crashes per flying hours.

Crashes wont happen unless you have somthing flying. Get me a figure which shows IAF has more crashes per flying hours.



I have no doubt about the coast lines.

The logic of PN being defensive and can afford to be small and then applying the same logic to India and saying India has to defend the entire coastline using IN is baseless.

IN just can sail in and envelope the entire PN.

Incase of a altercation between India and Pakistan, you can expect most of the IN flotilla attacking the narrow Pakistani coastline and the PN is in no way going to stop it.

Earlier wars have seen India diverting ships into the eastern sector mainly because we were worried about PLAN and USN. USN wont do anything, PLAN wont dare as long as USN and Rukies are not daring to.

The actual reason behind the higher attrition are not really relevant (I believe) for the following reasons. If the IAF has a "overwhelming" superiority (in numbers) then they would not need to operate their aircraft for longer periods. If we look at the figures for air losses (including combat and "scuttling") then the figures speak for themselves.The link I have provided has listings for aircraft losses (Including war losses) for both the IAF and the PAF.

http://www.warbirdsofindia.com

O k regarding the Naval situation. In the 90's you would have been correct in your assertion that The IN could create a pocket and squeeze the PN however that situation has been changed. If the PN uses a "Bastion" defence then it would be very difficult for the IN to do what you claim. Why? simple....The PN has to only achieve one thing....keep the IN back. using stand off systems (harpoon, c-802 and exocet) and E2 coverage it will be harder for surface ships to approach easily. and there are enough subs to defend the coast line (in combination with the surface or air ASW assets P-3's and Atlantiques ot helo's) plus land based aircraft will be available to defend the coast line. I am sure through sheer numbers the IN could break this force. However they would do so at cost. And more importantly it would take long enough to do so that in the event of a war the effect would be negligible.

As for diverting naval assets........assuming another side "will not dare" is something I believe Indian planners would not take for granted.

 

[Adux]

You are aware that even IN has Stand OFF weapons and will have Air dominance on the SEA. IN dosent have to being in the Range of Pakistani Missiles and still create a effective Naval Blockade, With Dedicated Su-30MKI squadron, Jaguar IN Darin II and Sea Harriers, and whole array of missiles and subs, I again Fail to see your point

 

[PakSniper]

You are aware that even IN has Stand OFF weapons and will have Air dominance on the SEA. IN dosent have to being in the Range of Pakistani Missiles and still create a effective Naval Blockade, With Dedicated Su-30MKI squadron, Jaguar IN Darin II and Sea Harriers, and whole array of missiles and subs, I again Fail to see your point

Read what Key's said again.

The problem would be exposing vulnerable assets like carriers, etc would be risky and the navel blockade will be at a cost. Defense is somewhat easier than attacking.

No doubt India has them,. but remember using those planes and coming on Pakistan territory would be risky cause of air-defense,. Pakistani leadership is pissing me off cause I want to know what High-altitude SAM they looking at, that can secure us against most of IAFs heavy fighter/bombers.

Plus,. with all these S2A missiles,. both sides can expect heavy losses,. sadly neither is like US to use stealth to neutralize these systems.

 

[Adux]

Indian carrier doesnt venture out alone, as a matter of fact no carrier does It has a Tanker, Two Destroyers with ASW capabilities, Two FFG and a Sub, Plus the fighter jets with air-air refueling capabilities,

You still havent found a counter to Brahmos from ships. I am sorry the only stuff Pakistan has which has some capabilities are those Augosta 90B's and P3C orion, But they will be detected before they are in Missile/torpedo lock range by Mig 29K or Harriers both of them are BVR capable. At present Pakistan really needs to look at its Navy, Cuz GOI is more focussed on the Navy than ever before. Navy has always got the lowest of all three in Pakistan Defence Budget.
Indian Ships can detect and attack before getting into the Range of Pakistani Ships!!! That speaks volumes for capabilites.

 

[Bull]

Excellent post Sir! :army:
India is three times bigger in size, six times bigger in population and has an economy seven times bugger than ours.
Yet we've managed to maintain a status quo 3:1 when it comes to military power.
Does it make us weaker?

You had to pay a heavy price for maintaining even this 1:3 ratio, compare the defence outlay of eaxh countries to their respective total expenditure and see.

Indian (military) doctrine is built around fronts, China and Pakistan. The former being three times bigger and more powerful as a thrue economic powerhouse. She can drain India in a long term conflict.

Well if pakistan could maintain "a creible balance" with india which is 7times its size, you should be plain common sense believe that India can do that with somenone who is just 3 times its size.

Just to prove you right I refer to Sir Murads claim that a batch of Cobra's was never publicized.

It was and i had read, i guess somebody even opened a thread here.

Agosta deal was kept in secret for long time and negotiations regarding the purchase of Marlin and U-214 just came to light..

Agosta was kept secret? i dont believe that. marlin and U214 is just in prelimnary discussion and is already there everywhere in the internet.

 

[Bull]

largest number of people living in slums more than hundred million people how much time do you think india needs to bring them anywhere near lower class strata..

I don't why everybody loves to speak the same old **** again and again.

• IA general - ketchup case
• India having poverty
• India having huge no of malnutrioned children
• India having high female infanticide
• India having a low HDI ranking

all the above are truths and accepted by any average indians.

the only thing that I can say to those obsessed with it is that India has improved, the pace can be much quicker, but there is no denying the fact that it has improved.

India's poverty level is 23% as of now, but it was 40 % a few decades ago. So things are improving and it shall.On an average its expected that India is pulling out 1% of its population out of extreme poverty.

 

[sigatoka]

1. Replaced by far superior systems, which is not what is happening in the otherside of the border.


2. Indian defence expenditure is increasing by 22% very year, plus the indian GDP increases every year also. That is a phenomenal amount of money,

I think what Key's was trying to say that while Indian capabilities are increasing, so are Pakistan's at around the same rate.

1. I totally disagree with this point, Pak. T-55's are not being replaced with T-55's but rather modern Al-Khalid tanks which are of roughly comparable quality to the T-90's that India is purchasing and this applies to all acquisitions.

2. What matters is not inputs but outputs, the 22% increase in inputs doesnt seem to be resulting in increase in outputs (that is quality and quantity increases) in the weapons systems such that the gap between Pakistan and India is growing significantly.

 

[Adux]

I think what Key's was trying to say that while Indian capabilities are increasing, so are Pakistan's at around the same rate.

1. I totally disagree with this point, Pak. T-55's are not being replaced with T-55's but rather modern Al-Khalid tanks which are of roughly comparable quality to the T-90's that India is purchasing and this applies to all acquisitions.

2. What matters is not inputs but outputs, the 22% increase in inputs doesnt seem to be resulting in increase in outputs (that is quality and quantity increases) in the weapons systems such that the gap between Pakistan and India is growing significantly.

Sigotaka

Pakistan capabilities is not increasing at the same rate, India is surging ahead. 22% increase in budget started from the last year on, and not quite enough time to analyze the outputs. I would agree with you on your example of Al-khalid, But that is just one of the spectrums, T-90's will outnumber them anyways. Airforce, Navy(ominious) are already ahead, Army maybe only a little ahead of PA.

I am not here for Chest Thumping, Its high time Pakistan came up with a credible Naval defence

 

[Adux]

do you know what USA ,45% of a 13.5 trillion dollar economy is? are you ****?
Pakistan spends more than on India on % terms.