Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[52051]

Congrats, I always think VT-4 looks far better than Type 99A.

 

[waz]

I doubt that you'll need a thousand MBT as tip of spear, just not cost wise viable.

Yes we will. India will eventually have around 2,000 T-90's, mix of S/M and MS models.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The problem is a lot of the Pakistani Indian border is good terrain for tank engagements. Whoever holds the advantage in MBTs and artillery commands the land battles. It is different from China versus India, where large or even medium tank battles are simply impossible due to the extremely high altitudes and mountainous terrain. That is why 600 to 1000 VT-4s is in the sights ... the current order of 300 is just the very beginning. Neither side has the ability to completely win the aerial war and use air superiority to level ground targets so tank warfare is still extremely crucial.

It'll depend on the long-term cost of the VT4 and whether Pakistan can muster enough hard currency to support such a purchase. If China can package in offsets through buy-backs of Pakistani produced goods (outside of agriculture), that would help drive such a purchase. However, leveraging China's economies-of-scale to acquire cutting-edge tanks, IFVs, and AFVs is a good idea, it's just a question of feasibility. This is why there'll always be talk about looping in our defence industry.

 

[Tipu7]

Yes we will. India will eventually have around 2,000 T-90's, mix of S/M and MS models.

1250 T-90S operational, 450+ further ordered. The total number will be around 1600+ in near future.

 

[waz]

China generally sells weapons to Pakistan at production cost, rather than make a profit.

That's true, which supports Pakistan's position as China's strategic ally.

 

[waz]

1250 T-90S operational, 450+ further ordered. The total number will be around 1600+ in near future.

Bro did you take into account older models? The total is 2,121 tanks;
310S models.
347M models.
1,000 MS models.
464MS models (further order).

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Congrats, I always think VT-4 looks far better than Type 99A.

u wot m8? ZTZ-99A is the best looking tank of all time!

 

[Tipu7]

Bro did you take into account older models? The total is 2,121 tanks;
310S models.
347M models.
1,000 MS models.
464MS models (further order).

There is no MS in Indian Armed Forces yet. There is order for 464 MS versions. Rest all are T-90S versions (1250 total) with slight variations.

 

[Ghost 125]

Bro did you take into account older models? The total is 2,121 tanks;
310S models.
347M models.
1,000 MS models.
464MS models (further order).

numbers mentioned by Tipu are correct, MS are on order, no MS as of now in IA...they only have S or Bhishma models.

 

[ziaulislam]

The problem is a lot of the Pakistani Indian border is good terrain for tank engagements. Whoever holds the advantage in MBTs and artillery commands the land battles. It is different from China versus India, where large or even medium tank battles are simply impossible due to the extremely high altitudes and mountainous terrain. That is why 600 to 1000 VT-4s is in the sights ... the current order of 300 is just the very beginning. Neither side has the ability to completely win the aerial war and use air superiority to level ground targets so tank warfare is still extremely crucial.

Not a good assumption

Although we might have a tip of spear but i am pretty sure in a prolonged conflict IAF will able to dominate the skies..and it wont be pretty for army

IAF IN together field over 600 aicrafts twice that of PAF ..

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I dont think any MS is on order for India.

 

[Yasser76]

Not a good assumption

Although we might have a tip of spear but i am pretty sure in a prolonged conflict IAF will able to dominate the skies..and it wont be pretty for army

IAF IN together field over 600 aicrafts twice that of PAF ..

History proves you wrong, as do events as recent as 2019....

 

[waz]

There is no MS in Indian Armed Forces yet. There is order for 464 MS versions. Rest all are T-90S versions (1250 total) with slight variations.

That's right, my post should have had the / to distinguish between the S and M version.

As for numbers, it's confusing, here from sources;

and 1,000-1,100 T-90 MBTs of both the MS and Bhishma S variants in service,

India’s Defense Ministry Signs $2.8 Billion Deal For 464 T-90MS Main Battle Tanks

The defense ministry concluded an agreement with the state-owned Ordnance Factory Board to license-build 464 T-90S main battle tanks.

thediplomat.com

The Army currently operates 1,100 T-90S tanks, of which 300 were directly procured from Russia.

India pays Russia $1.2 billion in technology transfer fees for T-90S tanks

India has awarded a $3.12 billion contract for local production of 464 T-90S main battle tanks after paying a technology transfer fee to Russia.

www.defensenews.com

There are currently around 1,000-1,100 T-90 MBTs of both the MS and Bhishma S variants in service, although the operational readiness rate of the tanks remains unclear. According to one estimate, 850-900 are of the T-90S Bhishma variant. Of the two, the T-

Meet India's T-90M Bhishma Tank: Russian Tech, Indian Made

A good combo?

nationalinterest.org

In all, India plans to have 310 T-90S and 1,330 T-90M tanks in service by 2020 (total of 1,657 tanks by 2020).

T-90M Bhishma:- India's Main Battle Tank (MBT) — Indian Defence News

The T-90 is a Russian third generation main battle tank.It is the latest development in the T-series of Russian tanks and represents an increase in firepower, mobility and protection. It is manufactured by Uralvagonzavod...

defenceupdate.in

The T-90S Bhishma is the main battle tank for the Indian Army. According to the Military Balance 2019 handbook published by the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), over 1,025 T-90S tanks are operational in the Indian Army at present

T-90 Bhisma

www.globalsecurity.org

India currently operates 2011 T-90S which were procured in three separate orders. Two batches (124 Russian built tanks and 186 tanks to be built in India in 2001 and a further 124 Russian built tanks and 223 tanks to be built in India in 2007) were purchased from Russia.

India orders extra 464 T-90 tanks from Russia

This $1.9 billion purchase of 464 new T-90MS tanks for 8 tank regiments at the Chinese border was approved in early November 2019.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

At present Indian Army is estimated to have more than 1600 T-90 Bhishma tanks and these numbers will cross 2000 by the year 2022.

Exclusive: Meet T-90 Bhishma, deadliest Indian Tank fighting China

Guarding India explained why T-90 Bhishma Main Battle Tank (MBT) is one of the deadliest tanks in the world. Check out our article to know.

guardingindia.com

Most say what you say i.e. around 1,500 T-90's, mix of variants. I also to believe this to be accurate, the other sources seem to have got things mixed up, hence my original post (2011 tanks).
That's actually good news i.e. they won't have over 2,000.

 

[ziaulislam]

History proves you wrong, as do events as recent as 2019....

History didnt account of laser guided and cluster ammunition

You saw desert storm..

2019 showed PAF is ready to take loses and IAF isnt...but in war of attrition numbers matters ..

PAF can never win a war of attrition unless we scale up jf17 production or get large number of f16s(used)

 

[Figaro]

Not a good assumption

Although we might have a tip of spear but i am pretty sure in a prolonged conflict IAF will able to dominate the skies..and it wont be pretty for army

IAF IN together field over 600 aicrafts twice that of PAF ..

In the Iran Iraq War, the Iraqis never maintained complete air superiortiy in the 8 years of war even though they had many times more modern aircraft than the Iranians. The Indian Pakistani disparity is a lot smaller than the Iranian Iraqi one and Pakistan has a much much better supply situation than Iran. What this means is the PAF will have to be tactically skilled as much as possible and conserve resources ... but maintaining balance with the IAF even in a long term conflict is definietely doable. War is not just fought on numbers. Besides, India's MIC capability is extremely weak, so they will have to rely mostly on imports to make up for their losses.

History proves you wrong, as do events as recent as 2019....

In World War II, the Luftwaffe was still able to dominate the skies or at least contest air superiority in the Eastern Front until 1944 even though the VVS (Soviet AF) had many times greater number of aircraft.