Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Philip the Arab]

This deal will never happen idk wtf leadership is thinking.

 

[SABRE]

Time is running out for ATAK. Z-10ME has plucked nearly all deficiencies.

I have a feeling this machine might find its way into PAA one way or the other.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Well, if PAA picks up Z-10ME in lieu of ATAK, the ATAK-2 could be the heavyweight option in lieu of AH-1Z.

 

[Inception-06]

Dedicated attack variant yes, not a swing-role like UH-1 sometimes carrying transport, other times a gunship.

I meant the armed versions.

 

[araz]

Time is running out for ATAK. Z-10ME has plucked nearly all deficiencies.

How quickly will the Chinese be able to supply Z10 MEs and what sort of time scales are we looking at to induct this bird.
A

This deal will never happen idk wtf leadership is thinking.

The leadership is not a bunch of jittery pimply kids who have enhanced reflexes and get excited over each and every scenario. The leadership keeps a very close and careful eye at the developments going on with our brotherly nations and makes calculated decisions for the betterment of the armed forces. So please sit back and take notice of what knowledgeable posters like @Dazzler are writing. See his post and notice his exact words. You will see PAA keeping eyes on Chinese developments which ( and I am taking some liberties here) may or maynot be where PAF might want them to be(notice the word nearly). ATAK would have started helicopter industry in Pakistan based on work share which would have been welcomed by both Turkey and Pakistan, which is why we patiently wait for our brothers to achieve a major milestone in indigenous engine development. Once done we have a developed and matured EU technology with a non ITAR engine and possibility to integrate our own weaponry with it. The possibility of work share alone will make this project worth waiting for.

 

[kursed]

Well, if PAA picks up Z-10ME in lieu of ATAK, the ATAK-2 could be the heavyweight option in lieu of AH-1Z.

Z-10ME is pretty much a confirm buy for PAA. It'll come with the radar that we need, AAMs, a2g missiles and highs speed datalink. If you consolidate this with the VT-4 news, you can see which direction we're heading in.

 

[Dazzler]

How quickly will the Chinese be able to supply Z10 MEs and what sort of time scales are we looking at to induct this bird.
A .

Take a leaf from the VT-4 deal, may be between 2-3 years or less. We may not order more than 30.

 

[Tipu7]

Pakistan should have also started a dedicated light attack helicopter program by choosing a baseline heli and arming it with weapons and related senors. There is a requirement of a light gunship on western front which is primarily manned by FC. AH-1F and Mi-24 pack all sorts of punch - and AH-1 has to be called whenever attack from the air is required to support ground troops. AH-1Z's major requirement is its operability at high altitude (western theatre included) which both AH-1F and Mi-24 lack.

One squadron of light gunship for FC KPK and another for FC Baluchistan should help FC in manning the borders and freeing all the other gunship types to operate against Indian conventional threat.

Why light? The lighter version may be cheaper but it's payload will be limited and range even more limited.
Mi-35M are acquired primarily for Western fronts. And their numbers will increase beyond 4+5 in future. That gunship, due to its superior Armaments (can carry cheap rocket pods, gunpods and have dedicated gun), longer range (can carry external fuel to increase it further), can carry 8 troops, can be used for Medi-Evec and for carrying supplies, is armored to survive enemy gun fire and equipped with day/night all weather operability,... It's the right answer we got.
We don't have lexury of equipping FC with gunships and combat drones.

 

[Signalian]

Why light?

QRF.

Movement sensors, cameras, drones, foot and motorized patrols for surveillance.

The lighter version may be cheaper but it's payload will be limited and range even more limited.
Mi-35M are acquired primarily for Western fronts. And their numbers will increase beyond 4+5 in future. That gunship, due to its superior Armaments (can carry cheap rocket pods, gunpods and have dedicated gun), longer range (can carry external fuel to increase it further), can carry 8 troops, can be used for Medi-Evec and for carrying supplies, is armored to survive enemy gun fire and equipped with day/night all weather operability,... It's the right answer we got.

Clearance of terrorists and extremists from Western region has almost come to an end through different Ops conducted under different timelines. Its the threats from across the border (Afghanistan) that require quick decimation on the border itself. This is why walls are being put up which will be monitored by FC. Dynamics of KPK have changed, while Baluchistan and Afghanistan are changing along with Iran. In a conventional war with India, all suitable assets will be shifted to east. Mi-35 will be able to see war in all sectors, except Kashmir. Light helis are already being used at high altitudes of Northern areas.

We don't have lexury of equipping FC with gunships and combat drones.

Same was once said about modern equipment, tanks and artillery. All are now found in FC.

 

[Armchair]

Mi-35 will be able to see war in all sectors, except Kashmir.

I think they would be best employed in Southern Kashmir sector or in Karunjhar Mountains - Bhuj.

 

[Signalian]

I think they would be best employed in Southern Kashmir sector or in Karunjhar Mountains - Bhuj.

If Mi-35 was good enough, why would PAA need AH-1Z for high altitude Ops say in North West area near Chitral ?
This also laid criteria for T-129 for high alt Ops and same for WZ-10.

I showed you a video in the thread you opened about WW2 Generals. The video was about logistical issues coz of non-commonality of equipment. If a light Heli can operate in high altitudes of GB/AJK, it should be able to operate on peaks of KPK and Baluchistan too hopefully, tests should be conducted.

 

[Armchair]

If Mi-35 was good enough, why would PAA need AH-1Z for high altitude Ops say in North West area near Chitral ?
This also laid criteria for T-129 for high alt Ops and same for WZ-10.

I showed you a video in the thread you opened about WW2 Generals. The video was about logistical issues coz of non-commonality of equipment. If a light Heli can operate in high altitudes of GB/AJK, it should be able to operate on peaks of KPK and Baluchistan too hopefully, tests should be conducted.

I really liked that video, learned a lot from it. Southern Kashmir is not that high and there are gaps in there as well. It's about the height of KPK. Just a thin layer of hills before the Kashmir valley. See topographic map.

 

[Signalian]

I really liked that video, learned a lot from it. Southern Kashmir is not that high and there are gaps in there as well. It's about the height of KPK. Just a thin layer of hills before the Kashmir valley. See topographic map.

Why did India convert Mi-17 as gunship instead of using Mi-24 in Kargil war ?
and
What if war shifted from southern to Northern Kashmir? suddenly ground troops will lose gunship support.

 

[Arsalan]

Well, if PAA picks up Z-10ME in lieu of ATAK, the ATAK-2 could be the heavyweight option in lieu of AH-1Z.

T-129 as the heavy weight option?

Z-10 max take-off weight is 7 ton
T129 max take-off weight is 5ton!

Z10 is the heavier one. What am i missing?

 

[Armchair]

Why did India convert Mi-17 as gunship instead of using Mi-24 in Kargil war ?
and
What if war shifted from southern to Northern Kashmir? suddenly ground troops will lose gunship support.

I'm not advocating buying more Mi-35s and not something else like T-129 / Z-10 / AH-1Z. Just suggesting this is the best employment of the Mi-35s that Pakistan does have. So, in the Western / northern Kashmir sectors, these other better helicopters would be used.

Armed helicopters could also be useful in defending Punjab, or intercepting Indian armour in Southern Punjab / northern Sindh. However, the key battleground would be Kashmir, and thus they would best be used here. They could be diverted to Punjab but not northern Kashmir.

T-129 as the heavy weight option?

Z-10 max take-off weight is 7 ton
T129 max take-off weight is 5ton!

Z10 is the heavier one. What am i missing?

Bilal mentioned the Atak-2 which is a 10 ton helicopter. I personally like the 6 ton T-629 because it will have commonality with a Turkish utility helicopter.