Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[-------]

The Pakistan Army has aging Puma helicopters. Granted, Pakistan's Pumas are the smaller IAR330/SA330s, which have about as much seating capacity as the AW139 (which the PAF already inducted). So it'll be interesting to see how the PAA looks at replacing the Puma, i.e. AW139 or T-70 from Turkish Aerospace?

One important detail to note is that the 8ton attack helicopter Turkey is to begin developing will share transmission and engines with the 12 ton medium lift helicopter, so maintenance and parts commonality would be shared reducing costs significantly.

Turkey is basically developing it's own Rooivalk Attack helicopter which is also based on a medium lift helicopter, the Puma.

I believe the 6ton attack helicopter we've seen artists renderings on that was going to be based off T625 has been shelved, for now, since foreign suppliers are no longer blocking parts for T-129.

 

[khanasifm]

More likely this is not just for paa order but all order once pac acquires capability and may be financial viability is much better

However, bar revealing the helicopters will be delivered incrementally over five years, there is nothing to indicate local assembly is part of the deal, and this may have been replaced with an agreement for parts manufacturing.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...ish-t129-attack-helos-to-replace-aging-fleet/

 

[SQ8]

A genuine compliment or exaggeration to sell more?
Big words
@Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Armchair @khanasifm @fatman17 @Windjammer

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

View attachment 487442 A genuine compliment or exaggeration to sell more?
Big words
@Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Armchair @khanasifm @fatman17 @Windjammer

There's some relativity ... I don't think NATO particularly cares what Pakistan does or doesn't do, but the Philippines, Thailand, Azerbaijan, etc could be keeping an eye on Pakistan. These are, after all, the markets Turkey's also interested in gaining in due time. Moreover, they're more or less as cost-sensitive as Pakistan too.

 

[royalharris]

There's some relativity ... I don't think NATO particularly cares what Pakistan does or doesn't do, but the Philippines, Thailand, Azerbaijan, etc could be keeping an eye on Pakistan. These are, after all, the markets Turkey's also interested in gaining in due time. Moreover, they're more or less as cost-sensitive as Pakistan too.

Lovely

 

[HRK]

I think bit of exaggerated compliment might be because of first successful sale agreement but successful completion of 4 years of testing in different and difficult conditions in Turkey and in Pakistan should be the reason enough to be extra cheerful

But what I am still trying to figure out if the same test for the range (flying directly from Quetta to Multan) was conducted for Z-10 than why it did not achieve success as the range of Z-10 is more than the distance b/w Quetta and Multan which is ~450 KM (as per article 480 KM)

 

[fatman17]

View attachment 487442 A genuine compliment or exaggeration to sell more?
Big words
@Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Armchair @khanasifm @fatman17 @Windjammer

bit of both but good marketing ploy . lol

 

[Chimgathar]

PA took more time since it was a newer machine, probably only Italy and Turkey operate it.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

View attachment 487442 A genuine compliment or exaggeration to sell more?
Big words
@Bilal Khan 777 @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Armchair @khanasifm @fatman17 @Windjammer

Genuine and true. Pakistan Army tests, tests, and tests. I have had Chuck Yeager say the same thing about our testing and training.

 

[GriffinsRule]

From Flight International July 24-30, 2018

Turkish Aerospace – newly rebranded without the former Industries suffix – is confident of winning more international orders for its T129 ATAK helicopter, having secured a 30-unit deal with Pakistan on the eve of the Farnborough show.

A delivery schedule with Islamabad has yet to be agreed as export license formalities must first be cleared with the Turkish and Italian defence ministries, says Gorkem Bilgi, corporate marketing manager at Turkish Aerospace.

Rome is involved because the T129 is largely based on the Leonardo Helicopters AW129 Mangusta. In addition, the helicopter’s T800 engines are produced by the Light Helicopter Turbine Engine Company – a joint venture between Honeywell and Rolls-Royce.

Once the export conditions are satisfied, deliveries can commence in three months, says Bilgi.

The Pakistan deal is a watershed moment for Turkey’s aerospace industry, he says. “Following Pakistan there are a lot of countries that we are negotiating with. Pakistan is a tough customer. We went to the Himalayas for high-altitude tests, we went to the desert for testing in hot conditions at 52°C [125°F]. They tested the helicopter for four years. It’s kind of a diploma – if you sell a helicopter to Pakistan, then all countries are interested.”

Specifically, the T129 is in contention for attack helicopter requirements in Bangladesh, Morocco and Thailand. Of these, Morocco is looking to buy 24 and Thailand 12-15. Bangladesh has yet to determine a quantity.

While Bilgi says the relationship with Leonardo, which helped develop the T129, is strong, the companies have different attack helicopter paths in the future. Turkish Aerospace’s focus going forward will be on the updated ATAK II, while Leonardo is developing the AW249.

 

[SQ8]

Genuine and true. Pakistan Army tests, tests, and tests. I have had Chuck Yeager say the same thing about our testing and training.

Perhaps true, and I guess the T129 is a great choice. But on a side note, even after thorough tests in which all the evaluating officers strongly advised against the mp5, a certain general with connections with the H&K middle man made it happen; and a billion rupees were wasted.

 

[Path-Finder]

I think bit of exaggerated compliment might be because of first successful sale agreement but successful completion of 4 years of testing in different and difficult conditions in Turkey and in Pakistan should be the reason enough to be extra cheerful
View attachment 487447 View attachment 487448 View attachment 487449 View attachment 487450

But what I am still trying to figure out if the same test for the range (flying directly from Quetta to Multan) was conducted for Z-10 than why it did not achieve success as the range of Z-10 is more than the distance b/w Quetta and Multan which is ~450 KM (as per article 480 KM)

is it possible to have better photograph of it?

 

[HRK]

is it possible to have better photograph of it?

I also downloaded it from this forum I think originally posted by @khanasifm or by @Gryphon

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Perhaps true, and I guess the T129 is a great choice. But on a side note, even after thorough tests in which all the evaluating officers strongly advised against the mp5, a certain general with connections with the H&K middle man made it happen; and a billion rupees were wasted.

Look. Such things happen everywhere, and Pakistan is no exception. Kindly don't be like MK and give sweeping generalizations and broad strokes. MP5, with all its issues for the Pakistani version, is a good CQB Machine Pistol. It has served PK well in many situations. The topic is the Turkish Helicopter, which is a great decision made by Pakistan.

From Flight International July 24-30, 2018

Turkish Aerospace – newly rebranded without the former Industries suffix – is confident of winning more international orders for its T129 ATAK helicopter, having secured a 30-unit deal with Pakistan on the eve of the Farnborough show.

A delivery schedule with Islamabad has yet to be agreed as export license formalities must first be cleared with the Turkish and Italian defence ministries, says Gorkem Bilgi, corporate marketing manager at Turkish Aerospace.

Rome is involved because the T129 is largely based on the Leonardo Helicopters AW129 Mangusta. In addition, the helicopter’s T800 engines are produced by the Light Helicopter Turbine Engine Company – a joint venture between Honeywell and Rolls-Royce.

Once the export conditions are satisfied, deliveries can commence in three months, says Bilgi.

The Pakistan deal is a watershed moment for Turkey’s aerospace industry, he says. “Following Pakistan there are a lot of countries that we are negotiating with. Pakistan is a tough customer. We went to the Himalayas for high-altitude tests, we went to the desert for testing in hot conditions at 52°C [125°F]. They tested the helicopter for four years. It’s kind of a diploma – if you sell a helicopter to Pakistan, then all countries are interested.”

Specifically, the T129 is in contention for attack helicopter requirements in Bangladesh, Morocco and Thailand. Of these, Morocco is looking to buy 24 and Thailand 12-15. Bangladesh has yet to determine a quantity.

While Bilgi says the relationship with Leonardo, which helped develop the T129, is strong, the companies have different attack helicopter paths in the future. Turkish Aerospace’s focus going forward will be on the updated ATAK II, while Leonardo is developing the AW249.

As I have suggested many times before, Turkey is now officially the other door for European and other western technology to be "absorbed" and sold to countries where direct sales are not possible. This case is a great example. However, i won't doubt that the Turkish honour brigade will come after me and ridicule me for my opinions. I guess nobody is allowed to think freely, specifically if it questions the military industrial complex of any country, Turkey and China included.

 

[KapitaanAli]

As I have suggested many times before, Turkey is now officially the other door for European and other western technology to be "absorbed" and sold to countries where direct sales are not possible. This case is a great example.

It's not just about taboo markets.
T129 is an Italian masterstroke to capture markets that they'd otherwise lose to other Euros and Americans, thanks to Turkey's immunity against western lobbying in many markets.

But I admire the Turks for making the most of it.