Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Nutuk]

Newpaper says Pakistan did not chose T_129 nor WZ-10 but the MI-35 of Russia

http://kokpit.aero/pakistan-mi-35-aliyor

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Newpaper says Pakistan did not chose T_129 nor WZ-10 but the MI-35 of Russia

http://kokpit.aero/pakistan-mi-35-aliyor

The report also gives the total number to be 20 and the operational area to be Western and Northern areas of Pakistan.

Hence there are chances of Chinese Z-10 and US AH-1Z are going to be added for East and South.

 

[graphican]

Newpaper says Pakistan did not chose T_129 nor WZ-10 but the MI-35 of Russia

http://kokpit.aero/pakistan-mi-35-aliyor

T-129 and WZ-10 are not a replacement of MI-35. Pakistan wants to use MI-35 for multiple reasons including attack and troops deployment. But having Mi-35 doesn't eliminate need to have T-129 or WZ-10 and we might end up getting one of such attack helicopter nevertheless.

 

[Super Falcon]

I still bellieve that T 129 pak army use it along side viper and Z 10 for india we need to replace 60 old helos of cobra we are getting 20 each of z 10 and vipers remaining will be from ATAK i think

 

[revojam]

I still bellieve that T 129 pak army use it along side viper and Z 10 for india we need to replace 60 old helos of cobra we are getting 20 each of z 10 and vipers remaining will be from ATAK i think

To keep logistic simple ( aka affordable ) its best to keep only one aircraft from one source.

 

[Blue Marlin]

To keep logistic simple ( aka affordable ) its best to keep only one aircraft from one source.

the Pakistanis don't like to have one system as that means they are dependent on that on system. yes it may seem like a good idea if you are an accountant but in the world of defence it capability and reality that decides.

the t129 was a really good option but unfortunately the US rejected to export the engine and Europe will be reluctant transfer tot. so that deal was dead.


so the z10 is most probably going to be the back bone of the armed forces gunship fleet whilst the mi35 will be used for support and the 15 viper helicopters is like the cherry on the cake. its the most advanced helicopter of pakistans fleet.

 

[TheConquerer]

the Pakistanis don't like to have one system as that means they are dependent on that on system. yes it may seem like a good idea if you are an accountant but in the world of defence it capability and reality that decides.

the t129 was a really good option but unfortunately the US rejected to export the engine and Europe will be reluctant transfer tot. so that deal was dead.


so the z10 is most probably going to be the back bone of the armed forces gunship fleet whilst the mi35 will be used for support and the 15 viper helicopters is like the cherry on the cake. its the most advanced helicopter of pakistans fleet.

reluctant transfer tot? Please do not write a comment with certain words about something which you dont have any knowledge.

 

[Blue Marlin]

reluctant transfer tot? Please do not write a comment with certain words about something which you dont have any knowledge.

so why did the t129 deal collaspe?

 

[fatman17]

Any sales of T129 by Turkey is subject to grant of US licence for the engine. Negotiations are underway between Turkey and US.

 

[Viper0011.]

Had Pakistan requested 30-40 units? The cost of 30-40 units would've been 2-2.5 billions and Pakistan wouldn't be willing to spend this much on one platform. I have no insight but I suspect we would've asked for the same number which we've got.

The $ 2 billion saved, should be spent on getting TOT from China and establish a local heli industry, starting with combat Z-10's, and later, producing a civilian variant by changing the combat chassis to a normal one, and using a lower HP engine.

This would establish a nice industry inside Pakistan for heli production. You could save many billions long run and even export it too.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Any sales of T129 by Turkey is subject to grant of US licence for the engine. Negotiations are underway between Turkey and US.

your right. also with pakistan wanted tot with the helicopter which it does. then it must also seek european approval but this has been sort of by passed by turkey making some of the systems. but with every thing being high tech and sensitive, there will always be strings if such a deal were to happen.

TAI's T129 Export Hopes Hinge on US License

 

[TheConquerer]

and Europe will be reluctant transfer tot. so that deal was dead.

your right. also with pakistan wanted tot with the helicopter which it does. then it must also seek european approval but this has been sort of by passed by turkey making some of the systems. but with every thing being high tech and sensitive, there will always be strings if such a deal were to happen.

I mentioned " Europe will be reluctant transfer tot" from your comment which is completely a false information.nearly all the critical subsystems has designed and produced by orginally turkish companies.and With the Collaboration Agreement signed with AgustaWestland, TAI.(Turkey) shall have;Intellectual property rights of the new configuration of the helicopter,Sole sourcing rights in the world for the fuselage, including Final Assembly and Flight Operations,Sales rights for the whole world excluding Italy and England . (Thanks to @cabatli_53)

 

[Blue Marlin]

I mentioned " Europe will be reluctant transfer tot" from your comment which is completely a false information.nearly all the critical subsystems has designed and produced by orginally turkish companies.and With the Collaboration Agreement signed with AgustaWestland, TAI.(Turkey) shall have;Intellectual property rights of the new configuration of the helicopter,Sole sourcing rights in the world for the fuselage, including Final Assembly and Flight Operations,Sales rights for the whole world excluding Italy and England . (Thanks to @cabatli_53)

i believe my sources, also OSCAR mention this and he has a good reputation for being correct. you may have property rights to the t129 but not to the parts that tai does not build, most obvious example engine the ir-sensor on the top of the rotor blades and other sensors and avionics of course you build some/most in house but there are some that you don't.

does tai build the rotor blades and are the composite blades ?

 

[cabatli_53]

i believe my sources, also OSCAR mention this and he has a good reputation for being correct. you may have property rights to the t129 but not to the parts that tai does not build, most obvious example engine the ir-sensor on the top of the rotor blades and other sensors and avionics of course you build some/most in house but there are some that you don't.

does tai build the rotor blades and are the composite blades ?

You shouldn't believe the source you have posted because Burak Bekdil writing in "defencenews" is not considered as reliable news spreader in Turkey. He always writes in direction of How his bosses want him to do. If you check his previous articles in defencenews, You will see that He is trying to do everything to underestimate/throw mud Turkish defence industry. He is the one who introduce Turkey's satellite launch center project as a threat for European countries and many others.

 

[cabatli_53]

you may have property rights to the t129 but not to the parts that tai does not build, most obvious example engine the ir-sensor on the top of the rotor blades and other sensors and avionics of course you build some/most in house but there are some that you don't.

does tai build the rotor blades and are the composite blades ?

T-129 is an Italian/Turkish attack heliopter and Majority of production have been done by Turkish industry. In this aspect, Italian workshare is limited with some productions but having rights at ownership with Turkey.

Avionics, Communication devices, radars, E/O, EW sensors all are Aselsan made. Noone have a saying for them. There may be some minor component imports but Those are export free for each country. Countries all around the World import such small components for cost-effectivity reasons. It is the critical components that exportations require permissions so the countries that want to export their complete products, must develop them on their own.

For example, Image intensifiers for night vision

QWIP detectors for Infrared vision

Those strategic components are mostly used as a politic card for others that can't produce. If you don't have good political relations with well-known a few producers, It is impossibile to import them so It became impossible to export your complete products hosting those subcomponents. Simple diodes or other subcomponent imports on electronic circuits doesn't make any differences since Nothing strategic and special for them.

Related components

Missiles and launchers are Roketsan made and Noone have a saying for them.

Mission computer and electronic hardwares are Aselsan made and Noone have a saying for that.

Around %90 of total Fuselage of Atak is produced by TAI.

Composite rotor blades are produced by TAI.

Transmission and gear workshare is also included in Turkey's share and The rate of production will be increased in following year When T129B1 deliveries started.