Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[k_arura]

At this point, it seems there is a cold shoulder by both Pakistan and the US to each other it could be felt at the UN.
So, chances are that the US might block this deal anyway without offering the AH-1Z.

That would be the "best" outcome given that Pakistan needs to focus on domestic peace and economy rather than try to be a counter to India for which there is ZERO chance of it doing without breaking itself apart.

 

[SQ8]

That would be the "best" outcome given that Pakistan needs to focus on domestic peace and economy rather than try to be a counter to India for which there is ZERO chance of it doing without breaking itself apart.

However, Gunships are essential in tackling these issues of internal violence. They very F-16s that India vehemently protested against have been keystone is attacking the Militants with pinpoint accuracy. So, certain leeway has to be given.

 

[Gessler]

I disagree,as you know we bought the HQ-9 Air Defence System from China.

Yes, now US can also have a close look at the system. If it hasn't done that already that is.

 

[T-123456]

Yes, now US can also have a close look at the system. If it hasn't done that already that is.

As we did with many other weapon systems,we dont just buy and use.
The HQ-9 is the starting point to develope an even better system,so who cares if the US has had a close look at the system(of which i doubt they did).

 

[-SINAN-]

What would be better for the US interests,lose Pakistan more and more to China or try to win them back?
Either by offerring the AH-1Z or allowing the Turkish deal(engines).

Mate, i think it's not only problem that will US face. Now think like this. If US locks our T-129 exports by not providing the engine, wouldn't they endanger themselves for taking part in the future projects of Turkey ?

 

[Gessler]

As we did with many other weapon systems,we dont just buy and use.
The HQ-9 is the starting point to develope an even better system,so who cares if the US has had a close look at the system(of which i doubt they did).

Perhaps, but this is different. T-129 uses American engine.

By common sense, a chopper is not a chopper without it's engine.

And it cannot be licensed for sale to 3rd party without US saying the word. That's just basic
diplomatic process!

Let's see how the thing unfolds.

 

[That Guy]

What political or strategic gain would Turkey have from good relations with Pakistan?
I would like to see your view on this,cause if we look at it from a strategic or political point,i dont think that would be the best option.

Strategically, it would expand Turkey's influence and give them a big foot print in South Asia (home to at least one fifth of the world's population) and the hope is that there will be a spill over effect with Turkey's influence growing outwards from Pakistan.

Politically, it would give Turkey more leverage in the Muslim world, especially when it comes to military affairs. Pakistan is, after all, the sole Islamic nuclear power and arguably the most experienced modern Muslim army in the world. Pakistan also controls Gwadar which is set to become a major energy hub for South Asia in the future and Turkey may want to have a piece of the pie. Of course, this is the BARE MINIMUM of what could potentially happen, so one cannot blame Turkey for going this route.

The future is with South and Central Asia, not the EU and NA. Turkey recognizes this to be an inevitable fact and is hedging it's bets early to potentially profit later down the line (short term losses for long term gains).

 

[T-123456]

Mate, i think it's not only problem that will US face. Now think like this. If US locks our T-129 exports by not providing the engine, wouldn't they endanger themselves for taking part in the future projects of Turkey ?

I think they allready calculated that possibility(we bought the HQ-9).
You will see in the future,not many US companies involved in our projects(none).

 

[-SINAN-]

I think they allready calculated that possibility(we bought the HQ-9).
You will see in the future,not many US companies involved in our projects(none).

And that won't be problem as they always sell sell sell, never share ToT.

 

[T-123456]

Perhaps, but this is different. T-129 uses American engine.

By common sense, a chopper is not a chopper without it's engine.

And it cannot be licensed for sale to 3rd party without US saying the word. That's just basic
diplomatic process!

Let's see how the thing unfolds.

The engine is produced by a joint venture of Roll-Royce(GB)and Honeywell(USA),so calling it an American engine is wrong.
But you are right,lets wait and see what happens.

 

[Echo_419]

Why so many expensive words?
Just say:We the people have had it with working for US interests,our politicians should work for us from now on or face the consequences!
Btw,very good no crying


Do you see your country beeing used for US interests?

Yeah inmean they use every country
But we are to big to controlled by any country

 

[That Guy]

Yeah inmean they use every country
But we are to big to controlled by any country

No such thing as "too big", if this were true then the British Empire would never have been able to control India for so long, and before that the Mughal Empire.

It's important to remember that it takes just one man to bring an entire nation to it's knees; as such, foreign powers are always on the hunt for such a man.

 

[Edevelop]

No AH1-Z. The U.S on the other hand is giving Apache to India...Its not a balanced deal. My bet is on T-129 or WZ-10, which are far better in capabilities and which we could get license to produce locally.

 

[Gessler]

The engine is produced by a joint venture of Roll-Royce(GB)and Honeywell(USA),so calling it an American engine is wrong.
But you are right,lets wait and see what happens.

GB can't do nothing against US wishes.

Uncle Sam tells GB to raise a finger, they will raise it.
Uncle Sam tells GB to lower a finger, they will lower it.

 

[Slayer786]

There is a healthy competition going on between our two friends Turkey and China. Both are interested to sell us their top notch atate of the art weapons and this puts pressure on us as we dont want to anger one over the other. Politics is a very dirty animal. And because of that we may not decide what is best for Pakistan.

China and Turkey battle for sales in Pakistani arms fair
Nov. 10, 2012
By USMAN ANSARI

KARACHI — Chinese and Turkish companies have been fiercely vying for business at Pakistan’s bi-annual International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) arms fair in Karachi.

The big two

IDEAS2012 was notable, however, for the competition between Chinese and Turkish defense industries. After domestic defense firms, Chinese and Turkish businesses had far and away the largest presence, with each country booking a hall for their companies.

TAI, having previously supplied an air warfare test and training range, as well as upgrading Pakistan’s F-16A/B Block-15 fleet, is pushing its T-129 attack helicopter to fulfill Pakistan’s requirements for an AH-1F Cobra replacement.According to a TAI spokesman, a deal was nearly signed with Pakistan for 15 T-129 helicopters, but it stalled because of financial issues. Due to the operational environments of the Pakistani and Turkish militaries being very similar in topographical and climatic terms, Bilgi is confident Pakistan will see its future attack helicopter in the T-129.

But it was the Chinese that appeared to have secured the bulk of Pakistani orders in the first stages of IDEAS2012.

The only problem here is that buying from Turkey would always involve USa meddling into our affairs. But with China there is no such problems. But both are our good freinds and we should utilize the benefits that we can get from them.