Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[HAIDER]

And Lets not forget that Pakistan Didnt get VERA-E or any version of VERA from Czech republic due to USA meddling....
So anything coming from USA is even more prone to be meddled with and banned for Pakistan.

US bought VERA manufacturing company.

 

[Safriz]

US bought VERA manufacturing company.

That happened in 2009.
Pakistan asked for VERA in 2005, but the czech manufacturer was asked not to supply the system to Pakistan.

 

[That Guy]

Such important defence procuremenrs are based of solid contracts and legally binding assurances...Not ''brotherly relations'' and ''Help''.
TAI is a Business entity...not Pakistan's ''Tai amma''.
It will have to be made sure what export right they have from engine manufacturers Rolls royce and Honeywell.

I have never believed in the so called "brotherly relations" between nations, simply because no such things exist.

I speak from a completely political and strategic point of view. There is a reason why Turkey has always helped Pakistan and ignored sanctions from the US and EU.

Besides, T-129 in the Pakistani military would look good for Turkey's resume, which would help alleviate the status for Turkey's attack copters and may even win them future contracts with other nations. This means more money for Turkey and as a result Turkey will be more susceptible to selling high tech weaponry to Pakistan because they'll have seen the benefits (i.e; Chain reaction).

 

[farhan_9909]

As per Usman Ansari

*3 Of them are/were gifted to Pakistan
* MKEK 155mm Panter howitzers is locally manufactured in HIT
*

ISLAMABAD AND ANKARA — Turkey is aggressively lobbying to give T-129 attack helicopters to Pakistan to replace its aging AH-1F fleet and is prepared to agree to generous terms with cash-strapped Pakistan to do so, according to sources.

However, the US could sink the deal and make a counteroffer of helicopter gunships to Pakistan that could be too good to refuse.

Pakistani media reports state a deal with Turkey could lead to local production of the T-129 at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), but speculation that preparations are already underway to build a new helicopter production facility there could not be confirmed.

Turkey made its latest push during Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s Sept. 16-18 visit to Turkey for the Third High Level Cooperation Council meeting. Sharif was given a demonstration of the T-129’s capabilities and a potential deal was discussed.

Turkish officials confirmed talks have “matured to a certain extent,” and Turkey remains committed to any possible deal, not only for financial benefits but also potential strategic gains.

“We see that both countries are keen to cooperate,” said one senior procurement official in Ankara. “We have a longer-term vision over any deal. We do not aim to win just one foreign contract but also view spillover benefits for the local industry. The Pakistani market may win international recognition for the T-129 and pave the way for future contracts.”

The official declined to comment on the modality of any deal.

However, a Pakistani source familiar with the negotiations said Turkey had offered to gift three T-129 helicopters to Pakistan with 2,300 items of spares. The T-129 variant in question was not clarified. The initial T-129A is being used for flight testing while the full specification T-129B is still under development.

Turkey followed the same approach in securing a deal for MKEK 155mm Panter howitzers with Pakistan in 2009. It is now produced in Pakistan by Heavy Industries Taxila.

However, a Turkish procurement official dealing with international agreements and financing voiced doubt over Pakistan’s ability to afford a deal.

“We know that Pakistan is not in the best financial shape. But this could be overcome with political will,” he said.

Salma Malik, assistant professor at the Department of Defence & Strategic Studies at Islamabad’s Quaid-i-Azam University, is uncertain, but not dismissive, saying this “depends on how and what kind of budgetary allocation the concerned offices have, and how they have outlaid it.”

A more serious potential obstacle, however, is obtaining US permission to export the LHTEC CTS800-4N engine powering the T-129.

A US industry source in Ankara said a US export license for the T-129’s engine would be critical. “This may require complex deliberations in Washington, involving many industrial and political parameters,” he said.

Brian Cloughley, former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, said Congress holds the key to the deal.

“It is most unlikely that either the White House or the Pentagon would attempt to deny an export license to Turkey for T-129 power plants and ancillaries, but the Defense Security Cooperation [Agency] is required to notify Congress of most proposed sales and obtain approval,” he said.

“Given the mood of Congress, it is extremely difficult to predict what they might or might not do. It takes only a couple of members or senators to demur, and the whole process could be halted. Everything depends on the political mood of the moment.”

Nevertheless, Turkey hopes the T-129 will be an export success.

In remarks carried by Turkish daily Today’s Zaman, Turkey’s procurement chief, Murad Bayar, said Sept. 23 that the T-129 attack helicopter “had strong export potential.”

The T-129 has been going through acceptance tests before deliveries for the Turkish military. Officials expect the first delivery to be made within the next few weeks.

“We may complete the delivery of the first nine helicopters by the end of the year,” Bayar said. “After these helicopters make their way into the Turkish inventory, I believe they will have strong chances for export.”

Azerbaijan is reportedly looking to buy 60 T-129 helicopters. Jordan’s King Abdullah, who was in Turkey in March, visited Turkish Aerospace Industries, co-maker of the T-129, and examined both the helicopter gunship and Turkey’s first locally-developed drone, the Anka.

Despite Turkey’s hopes, however, the US might try to tempt Pakistan with a deal for the AH-1Z Viper helicopter.

No one at the defense section in the US Embassy would comment on the matter, but details were confirmed by sources in Pakistan familiar with the deal.

Pakistan has been awarded US $300 million in foreign military financing for FY2013-2014, which could be used to procure the Viper attack helicopters, made by Bell.

This is part of a wider deal discussed during US Deputy Defense Secretary Ashton Carter’s trip to Islamabad on Sept. 17.

Cloughley, however, does not believe Pakistan will be tempted.

“I do not think that Pakistan would be tempted to ditch the T-129 deal if there were an offer of Vipers. There might be a good deal proposed by the US, but operating costs are high and would [argue] against acceptance. Further, and probably more significant, there is decided and most strong opposition in Pakistan to further deals with the US.”

Turkey Pushes T-129 Gunships for Pakistan, but US Could Scupper Deal | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Kompromat]

US blocks Turkey's 'flagship sale' and risks souring relations with a NATO member as well as with Pakistan, another MNNA. Pakistan gets pisssed off - commits to WZ-10. It will be a diplomatic disaster for the US if that happens.

 

[Pakistani E]

The US sometimes acts like a playground bully who wants everyone to buy candy just from him and no one else. It also wants the world to pay attention to it, talk about self consciousness lol.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

This has been in the pipeline since giklani went to turkiye... co-production or tot was offered even back than... I opened a thread in it aswell..,. As for temptation.. I don't think so...

 

[T-123456]

In the end,Pakistan is in a good position to get the best offer.
T-129,WZ-10 or AH-1Z Viper all three are comparable so it doesnt really matter for now which one you get in short notice.
For the future,there will allways be more opportunities for license/co-production.

 

[massattack]

Thank you for sharing info on the mean machine guys.... we are definitely in need of this weapon to iron out buggers hidding in the mountains

 

[massattack]

i agree with you to some extent as the main benefit that you have mentioned comes with the deal if they make it with anyother nation but as far as my information they have given 3 copter for free and also there are talks of having it totally built here at kamra.. which means they probably dont have the same offer for everyone else

 

[T-123456]

I have never believed in the so called "brotherly relations" between nations, simply because no such things exist.

I speak from a completely political and strategic point of view. There is a reason why Turkey has always helped Pakistan and ignored sanctions from the US and EU.

Besides, T-129 in the Pakistani military would look good for Turkey's resume, which would help alleviate the status for Turkey's attack copters and may even win them future contracts with other nations. This means more money for Turkey and as a result Turkey will be more susceptible to selling high tech weaponry to Pakistan because they'll have seen the benefits (i.e; Chain reaction).

What political or strategic gain would Turkey have from good relations with Pakistan?
I would like to see your view on this,cause if we look at it from a strategic or political point,i dont think that would be the best option.

 

[LonE_WolF]

I think Pakistan should evaluate both T-129 nd WZ-10. Then go for the one which is better

 

[SQ8]

At this point, it seems there is a cold shoulder by both Pakistan and the US to each other it could be felt at the UN.
So, chances are that the US might block this deal anyway without offering the AH-1Z.

 

[T-123456]

At this point, it seems there is a cold shoulder by both Pakistan and the US to each other it could be felt at the UN.
So, chances are that the US might block this deal anyway without offering the AH-1Z.

What would be better for the US interests,lose Pakistan more and more to China or try to win them back?
Either by offerring the AH-1Z or allowing the Turkish deal(engines).

 

[SQ8]

What would be better for the US interests,lose Pakistan more and more to China or try to win them back?
Either by offerring the AH-1Z or allowing the Turkish deal(engines).

Appease India by curtailing Pakistan and get them permanently as the US Sheriff in Asia.