Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Turkey has no technology to make high powered engine. Maybe 50 hp but not 1500 hp needed for helicopters.

TS1400 will make its first flight in the next 2 weeks Mad Kurd

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

TS1400 will make its first flight in the next 2 weeks Mad Kurd

Not with western sanction on Turkey.

 

[capricorn5192]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320430828200091651

 

[Irfan Baloch]

S-400 Pain: Turkey hires U.S. lobbyists to get an export license of T800-4A engines for Pakistan

Congressional leaders have blocked major U.S. arms sales to Turkey for almost two years in response to Ankara’s purchase of Russian S-400 missile systems, which the United States says threatens the…

www.globaldefensecorp.com

I like the way Turks are working. they are improvising and keeping all avenues open.

on one side they are actively seeking US export approval for the LHTEC T800 4A for Pakistani order and on the other their domestic industry is working on a local engine TS1400 as well which should complete its prototype development and testing by 2023.
I have my fingers crossed for successful testing and integration of Turkish powerplant on T-129 which will be US sanctions proof for future.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Definitely a mistake. They should have waited another 10 to 15 years, developed their defence industry fully. 5th generation fighter jets, helicopters, highly developed economy. They would have automatically risen as a regional power.

Unless ofcourse Turkey is confident they can make their own 5th, 6th generation fighter jets and engines, own helicopter engine etc, only time will tell.

Pakistan would love to have this gunship. 100 T129s and its bye bye to USA gunships

it is unfair and unwise to criticize Turkey's decision without understanding Turkish perspective, Turkey not only addressed the concerns and assured that Russian system wont be integrated with NATO defense network but repeatedly referred to the NATO charter which allows its member countries to buy any technology or system to safeguard and defend its territory. Turkey didnt violate any treaty clauses through the purchase and true to its word, it has kept the system separate from the NATO defense grid.

the attitude and excuses of the Western countries (America and its lackeys) is unjust and malicious and they are coming with excuses of S400 spying on the F-35 features and passing the data through the S400 cloud to its manufacturer and thus finding a counter to the stealth features of one of the NATO premier jet of the future.

maybe you have more insight about Turkish air defense needs and its threat perceptions. but what I have seen and read on the open source suggests that Turkey needed land based effective air defense many years ago and this couldnt wait.

Turkey repeatedly requested the Patriot systems from America but despite being an Ally and a NATO member, the request was turned down. this is something which even the current American president |Trump has criticized the previous administration for failing to sell the patriot systems. any objections or features requested by Turkey could've been negotiated and agreed upon and a refusal was never a good choice.

Turkey was willing to buy more expensive S400 system due to its defense needs and went ahead with it despite all the political and military fallout from the west. this shows how much Turkey views its security given the new regional developments or deterioration around itself.

compatibility or compromising NATO defense grid was never a possibility as Turkey never intended to integrate with NATO defense grid. the NATO secretary general himself acknowledged the Turkish right to buy any system for its defense which is a clause in the NATO defense treaty for all member states.,

 

[Nasr]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320430828200091651

Hmm ... That is interesting. What about the F-16 spares, have the supplies restarted? And what about the F-35s, is Turkey going to be allowed to get these fighters?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Not with western sanction on Turkey.

do you understand what TS1400 he is referring to? its a domestically developed turbo shaft engine by TEI. this engine cant be sanctioned by the West. its prototype development and testing will conclude in few years time. it will be adapted for T-129 making the entire gunship sanctions proof.

 

[wulff]

I wish the americans would block the engine, or stall it for a few years so the deal finally collapses. Pakistan has for years been throwing billions of dollars away on questionable purchases, buying weapons that do nothing to offset the mil balance (HQ-16, frigates and corvettes, VT-4, the list could go on). It is almost like there are people trying to sabotage the defence budget every year.

Buying attack helicopters for 1.5 billion dollars is stupid for a country like Pakistan. PAF cannot attain air dominance over opponent's territory, and during such missions these attack helicopters will get shot down within no time. Notice how Azerbaijan's attack helicopters haven't undertaken offensive missions over karabagh, even after a month of warfare in which dozens of armenian air defences have been knocked out. Also notice how Turkey didn't employ the T-129 over Idlib in 2019. In both karabagh and idlib, the TB2s have done the CAS work and proven to be far more survivable.

Better options therefore exist for the same set of missions a T-129 fleet would perform. Bayraktar TB2 drones: extremely cheap, far more survivable and can be bought in much bigger numbers. Their ability to get past SAM systems is revolutioning drone warfare. And if you want to deliver a heavier punch, Chinese long range (~300 km) Guided MLRS systems can complement the TB-2 nicely.

Ideally, however, given the lessons learned in recent conflicts, the money should have actually gone into the purchase of SAMs, ATGMs, and NLOS guided missiles.

 

[Raja Porus]

You are true that drones are the future but your quotation of AZ Armenian conflict is not totally correct. Though useful against small numbers of tanks and inf. Can drones carry enough atgms to meet an armoured thrust as the attack helicopters can. Moreover i don't know why we think that if some drones have destroyed old Soviet tanks they've become obsolete. Can a drone have the same offensive power as tank on a battlefield. Can it move fast,have sufficient firepower and protection. Vt4s can never be compared to drones . Also what about Active Protection system.

 

[Dazzler]

Forget ATAK.

Z-10MEs are coming.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Forget ATAK.

Z-10MEs are coming.

any word or update of Zulu's ?

 

[Imran Khan]

Forget ATAK.

Z-10MEs are coming.

when and how many

 

[aziqbal]

did Turkey not recently hire a Lobbyist to get the engine deal through ?

could it have paid off ?

 

[Inception-06]

Forget ATAK.

Z-10MEs are coming.

Allah da shukar ! We have wasted enough time and resources with Turkish weapons, which are strictly under American regime and restriction, like the harpoons missiles, the American did not allow the turkey to install the Harpoon missiles on the MRTP-33, we did get naked boats, so why they should allow the turkey to sell us American engines.. the end of story!

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320430828200091651

Considering Trump will not win election, Biden will sanction Turkey hard, and Pakistan along with it. So I suppose no T129 will be delivered to Pakistan. In the meantime, Pakistan should order more Wing Loong 2 attack drones. Drone is the future. Helicopters are outdated.