Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

https://www.tusas.com/en/product/t129-atak
so they r wrong?

There is no point in having an unnecessary discussion if you don't have the capacity to understand the difference between maximum service altitude and Avarage Mission Weight, or if you still haven't learned to read and write.
I suggest you use your great intelligence in a much more rational place.

 

[-------]

There is no point in having an unnecessary discussion if you don't have the capacity to understand the difference between maximum service altitude and Avarage Mission Weight, or if you still haven't learned to read and write.
I suggest you use your great intelligence in a much more rational place.

It's hilarious watching some users here peddling an overweight and under-powered helicopter like the Z-10 boasting about its apparent aptitude for high altitude mountain warfare.

Z-10 - 7ton MTOW + 1,341shp
LCH - 5.8ton MTOW + 1,384shp
T-129 - 5ton MTOW + 1,360shp

Take a minute or two and think about it.

 

[Tipu7]

Any one claiming Z10 or any of its variant being superior than T129 is utterly ignorant of ground realities. Z10, after evaluation within Pakistan, was nothing more than a disappointment as far as its reliability and operability is concerned. T129 on the other hand, after rigorous evaluation, settled new benchmarks for Army combat aviation.
There is good reason, why Pakistan has given Turkey time to sort out engine issues as it want T129 as a bulk of its gunship fleet.
Z10, if arrived will be mere 'desperate stopgap'.
And assuming LCH being better than T129 is even more laughable.

 

[beijingwalker]

Any one claiming Z10 or any of its variant being superior than T129 is utterly ignorant of ground realities. Z10, after evaluation within Pakistan, was nothing more than a disappointment as far as its reliability and operability is concerned. T129 on the other hand, after rigorous evaluation, settled new benchmarks for Army combat aviation.
There is good reason, why Pakistan has given Turkey time to sort out engine issues as it want T129 as a bulk of its gunship fleet.
Z10, if arrived will be mere 'desperate stopgap'.
And assuming LCH being better than T129 is even more laughable.

Chinese choppers are being upgraded every single year, and as your dream chopper T129, don't know how many years you have to wait and when they can finally delivered if they can be delivered at all, how far other chopper would have been developed.

 

[Tipu7]

Chinese choppers are being upgraded every single year, and as your dream chopper T129, don't know how many years you have to wait and when they can finally delivered if they can be delivered at all, how far other chopper would have been developed.

Z10, if arrived will be mere 'desperate stopgap'

 

[-------]

Chinese choppers are being upgraded every single year, and as your dream chopper T129, don't know how many years you have to wait and when they can finally delivered if they can be delivered at all, how far other chopper would have been developed.

China would have to up rate its engine to 1,820shp for Z10 to perform as well as T-129 with 1,360shp engine. This is highly unlikely to ever happen and as such, Z10 will never match T-129 on sheer performance and efficiency. But, if Turkey can not deliver - then Z10 is better then nothing and as such, we wish for Pakistan to be a strong nation and fill gaps.

Unfortunately Turkey isn't yet in a place where it can empower Muslim countries from servitude, but we are working on it.

 

[beijingwalker]

China would have to up rate its engine to 1,820shp for Z10 to perform as well as T-129 with 1,360shp engine. This is highly unlikely to ever happen and as such, Z10 will never match T-129 on sheer performance and efficiency. But, if Turkey can not deliver - then Z10 is better then nothing and as such, we wish for Pakistan to be a strong nation and fill gaps.

Unfortunately Turkey isn't yet in a place where it can empower Muslim countries from servitude, but we are working on it.

In the past two decades China had already shown what she is capable of, space station, moon rover, Beidou, Mars probe...saying China will never match who and who is just BS, China's technology and innovation advancement in the recently past was seen by everyone who is not blind.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

In the past two decades China had already shown what she is capable of, space station, moon rover, Beidou, Mars probe...saying China will never match who and who is just BS, China's technology and innovation advancement in the recently past was seen by everyone who is not blind.

Yes, your example Versus to Turkey against Israel with a population of 10 million is or when you beg of technology. Wow, China with a population of close to 1.5 billion can build helicopters and engines with the help of Russia. The whole world is shocked, congratulations, you are better than the Turks, but this is not a place where countries should broadcast their 100-year-old shedules, we are talking about Pakistan's helicopter options.

 

[beijingwalker]

You can wait for another decade for T129， hopefully the deal can eventually be completed.

 

[beijingwalker]

this is not a place where countries should broadcast their 100-year-old shedules, we are talking about Pakistan's helicopter options.

They chose you, hopefully you won't let them down.
If Turkey indeed can work out a indigenous engine for that chopper in one or two years as you planned, you will really make a miracle, my full admiration.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

You can wait for another decade for T129， hopefully the deal can eventually be completed.

Helicopters and none of the subsystem and engine projects developed for them are being developed for Pakistan. It was already at the request of the forces from the very beginning. There is an option for everyone, if not T129, then Z-10, otherwise another Mig. You keep develop, that's enough, nobody has developed an optional technology next to after 15 years to helicopter. Helicopter sales will continue.

 

[-------]

In the past two decades China had already shown what she is capable of, space station, moon rover, Beidou, Mars probe...saying China will never match who and who is just BS, China's technology and innovation advancement in the recently past was seen by everyone who is not blind.

Now you are posting for the sake of replying to me - you have not made any attempt to challenge my point, at-least you know how valid my point is...

Fact is this;

T-129 would reach an altitude of 4,000 ft much quicker and efficiently then Z-10 ever could. Making T-129 the better option for mountain/high altitude operations.

Would anyone like to dispute the above statement?

 

[beijingwalker]

Now you are posting for the sake of replying to me - you have not made any attempt to challenge my point, at-least you know how valid my point is...

Fact is this;

T-129 would reach an altitude of 4,000 ft much quicker and efficiently then Z-10 ever could. Making T-129 the better option for mountain/high altitude operations.

Would anyone like to dispute the above statement?

I admit my knowledge in this field is almost like zero, I only want to say however good your choppers are, they need to be delivered to the customers first.

 

[Nasr]

You can wait for another decade for T129， hopefully the deal can eventually be completed.

I believe that Pakistan was implementing a diversification policy toward it's military hardware. Whether it be Al-Khalid (collaboration with China & Ukraine), T-80UD and VT-4. Or be it Chinese Submarine contract, French Submarine contract. Or be it Thunders for the air force, American F-16s or French Mirages.

That's probably the reason for T-129s. From Turkey was probably a safer bet, then directly from Italy. As the latter is more likely to succumb to american pressure, whereas Turkey is not. Having said that, it is important to note that China is far greater capacity and industrial base than Turkey. Which means that Pakistan ought to go for the helicopter which fulfills it's combat operational requirements. If that means Z-10MEs, then so be it. At least Pakistan doesn't need to fear "sanctions" from China, as it has from America over then 60 years.

 

[LKJ86]

Any one claiming Z10 or any of its variant being superior than T129 is utterly ignorant of ground realities. Z10, after evaluation within Pakistan, was nothing more than a disappointment as far as its reliability and operability is concerned. T129 on the other hand, after rigorous evaluation, settled new benchmarks for Army combat aviation.
There is good reason, why Pakistan has given Turkey time to sort out engine issues as it want T129 as a bulk of its gunship fleet.
Z10, if arrived will be mere 'desperate stopgap'.
And assuming LCH being better than T129 is even more laughable.

There are no objective assessments of Z-10 in PDF, just like what VT-4 used to suffer.