Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Pakistani Fighter]

No offense for Pakistanis but u really believe until now Pakistan has master most of the design scratch up, testing to manufacturing of modern fighter jets?

The latest block 3 is still design and tested in Chengdu, manufacturing of it is still in AVIC, test pilot is still a Chinese, design and project manager , again is still Chinese.

Not to fault Pakistanis. A true self sufficient industrial for a total aviation is expensive and time consuming.

What about Indian jet industry and especially Tejas

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

American jet industry was jump started by German tech AND German scientists.

What about Indian jet industry and especially Tejas

 

[Beast]

What about Indian jet industry and especially Tejas

Indian aviation seems to have a more independent design team but whether it is effective anot. That is another topic.

In terms of testing facilities , they seems to have better but still limited facilities compare to Pakistan. For example their high ,hot attitude testing for their kaveri engine, they still need to send to Russia for such test.

 

[khanasifm]

But industry sources warn that any successful engine development program would take at least five to 10 years.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/...tends-turkeys-deadline-to-deliver-t129-helos/

 

[KapitaanAli]

But industry sources warn that any successful engine development program would take at least five to 10 years.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/...tends-turkeys-deadline-to-deliver-t129-helos/

US will provide the engines after sometime.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

But industry sources warn that any successful engine development program would take at least five to 10 years.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/...tends-turkeys-deadline-to-deliver-t129-helos/

Turkey announced the TS1400 in 2017 (and may have actually begun the work before that). The goal is to make it operational by 2025, so around 8 years since project start.

 

[imadul]

Turkey announced the TS1400 in 2017 (and may have actually begun the work before that). The goal is to make it operational by 2025, so around 8 years since project start.

It is inconceivable that a future 2025 engine could be fitted into a rotor craft yesterday
Safran Arrano 1A is under contingency plans per Dr. Ismail Demir of SSB which have also mentioned by you.
But T129 ATAK is stuck for Pakistan.
Best to work on alternative engines like safran arrano but its 1100-1300 shp is less that that of 1373 shp of cts800, also a la carte issues of fitting a different engine and the testing. But no option for Pakistan. Pakistan should just ditch sanction prone cts800 and give full go ahead for safran arrano to TAI, Something will come up.

 

[xbat]

Turkey announced the TS1400 in 2017 (and may have actually begun the work before that). The goal is to make it operational by 2025, so around 8 years since project start.

TS 1400 turboshaft engine development has started in 2013, unofficailly. when the project get matured agreement signed between TEI and SSM in 2017.

 

[imadul]

Army will have major role during Future war with India and Army Aviation Attack rotor crafts will be mainstay of offensive ops. It is clear USA blocking attack choppers for Pakistan not for usual arm twisting but to give qualitative and numerical advantage to indian armor formations. Vipers wont come and CTS800 will remain blocked for T129's.
Pakistan and Turkey have to find an alternative and quick. PA should also look to acquire at least 12 Mil Mi 28NE to beef up Avn Corps and 12 optional copies.
They will form the heavy attack squadrons and when T129 ATAK will be available after 2-3 years with new turboshaft engine, they can from the light attack helicopter squadrons.

 

[nomi007]

why Turkish made engine? which was never use before on any plateform.
it is better to go Russian or Ask Turkey to integrate an western engine

 

[imadul]

why Turkish made engine? which was never use before on any plateform.
it is better to go Russian or Ask Turkey to integrate an western engine

TEI has developed T700-TEI-701D for their sikorsky T70 Black hawks, it was a JV between TEI and GE and based upon GE T700. Point is Turkey has made strides in turboshaft engines for copters.
TS1400 for T129 is under development and will take good 3-5 years? So it's a long shot IMO. Some more knowledgeable members keeping tab on it can clarify.
TEI considering Safran Arrano 1A for Pak T129 but even that will take time for integration, testing and burnout.
Any 3rd party engine from a vendor will take time to integrate.

 

[khanasifm]

TS 1400 for T129 Mk-I ATAK Helicopters

The TEI TS1400 Turboshaft Engine can also be integrated into T129 Mk-I ATAK Helicopter with some adaptations to replace LHTEC CTS800-4A Engines for which Turkey has been experiencing difficulties for several years in obtaining an export license from the U.S. Government. In 2015 Turkey had finalized negotiations with Turkmenistan for the sale of 2 T129 Mk-I ATAK Helicopters however since the U.S. Government did not provide the export license for the LHTEC CTS800-4A Engines this project was not realized. A similar problem is being experienced for the sale of the T129 Mk-Is to Pakistan. Turkey has been waiting for more than a year for the U.S. export license in order to proceed with the Pakistan T129B Mk-I deal.

The contract for the sale of 30 T129B Mk-I ATAK Light Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopters to Pakistan Land Forces was signed on 16 May 2018, yet it has not become effective as of June 2019. Official application to the U.S. Government regarding the export license of the LHTEC CTS800-4A Turboshaft Engine utilized on the helicopter was made, the process was completed with the Foreign Affairs Commission and the request was submitted to the U.S. Department of Defence. The approval process was still underway as of May 2019. Turkish Aerospace previously received the Original License Document from the U.S. Government for the sale/export of the T129B to Pakistan. The Philippine Air Force is another customer for the T129B Mk-I Helicopter. On 18 December 2018, a MoU for Defence Industrial Cooperation between Turkey and the Philippines was signed between the SSB’s Prof. Ismail DEMIR and Philippine Secretary of National Defence Delfin N. LORENZANA at Villamor Air Base in Manila. This MoU will pave the way for cooperation between the two countries in the field of the defence industry and the sale of the Turkish Defence and Aerospace Industry products (including the T129) to the Philippines. The Philippine Air Force will procure 6 (+10 optional) T129 Mk-I Helicopters if the necessary export license for the T129B Mk-I will be received from the U. S. Government.

Even though negative feedback is not expected from the U.S. Government regarding the export license of the CTS800-4A Turboshaft Engine, negotiations with the French Safran Group are being conducted on alternative engine options as a Plan-B. The Safran Helicopter Engine currently has two turboshaft engines which are 1,400 shp class, for twin-engine helicopters in its product portfolio and the company plans to get EASA certification for both of them in 2019. The Ardiden 1H1/Shakti, which powers the twin-engine Dhruv and LCH (Light Combat Helicopter) from India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is designed to produce 1,430 shp. With a power range of 1,100 shp to 1,400 shp the Arrano 1A Turboshaft Engine was selected by Airbus Helicopters in early 2015, as sole engine for its new twin-engine helicopter H160, in part, on its ability to deliver extra power when operating in hot-and-high conditions. The Arrano 1A has a dry weight of over 300 kg and features a two-stage Centrifugal Compressor, Reverse-Flow Combustion Chamber, Variable Inlet Guided Vanes, 4th Generation FADEC and a 3D-Printed Fuel Injector. According to Safran Helicopter Engines, depending on the mission, the Arrano 1A Engine can fly almost 5,000 hours before needing a general overhaul (Depot Level Maintenance). Since its first ground test in February 2014, more than 10 test engines have been running at Bordes (France) to demonstrate engine performance. The Arrano-powered H160 (PT2 prototype) made its first flight on 27 January 2016. As of February 2019, the Arrano 1A Engines accumulated more than 7,000 test hours, including 1,100 hours in flight.

Previously, within the scope of the tender that was launched by the SSB in 2014 to meet the engine requirement of the TLUH (both civil and military versions) prototypes, Turbomeca (now Safran Helicopter Engines) competed with LHTEC and had proposed the Arrano Engine. At that time the company had underlined that it was designed for both civil and military rotorcraft and that the Arrano Engine was 100 % ITAR Free and would be civil certified. At that time civil certification (EASA) for the Arrano Engine was planned to be obtained in 2017. Yet, the winner of the tender, which was finalized in April 2015, was LHTEC with their CTS800-4AT Engine.

 

[khanasifm]

https://www.safran-helicopter-engines.com/video/2295

 

[nomi007]

TEI has developed T700-TEI-701D for their sikorsky T70 Black hawks, it was a JV between TEI and GE and based upon GE T700. Point is Turkey has made strides in turboshaft engines for copters.
TS1400 for T129 is under development and will take good 3-5 years? So it's a long shot IMO. Some more knowledgeable members keeping tab on it can clarify.
TEI considering Safran Arrano 1A for Pak T129 but even that will take time for integration, testing and burnout.
Any 3rd party engine from a vendor will take time to integrate.

than directly block the Nato supply

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

PA should also look to acquire at least 12 Mil Mi 28NE to beef up Avn Corps and 12 optional copies.

I think we were looking for Mi28NE