Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[xbat]

Even the most skilled manpad operator would take longer to set up..A volley of TOWs would give any tank column a significant emotional event.

oh! come on there is a device called "radio".

 

[Philip the Arab]

Even the most skilled manpad operator would take longer to set up..A volley of TOWs would give any tank column a significant emotional event.

You can actually shot down attack helicopters with TOW missiles and other ATGMs if you are skilled enough and the helicopter is hovering or flying slow.

 

[Keysersoze]

oh! come on there is a device called "radio".

Yes there is. Radios also take time to operate and you have to know what direction the enemy is coming from etc etc. The flight time is less than 20 seconds....
Any attack would in be salvos of 3 or 4 and the helicopters would be 3 or 4 km away so likelihood is you'll not hear about the first missile till it hit...Boom!

 

[khanasifm]

https://www.defensenews.com/industr...could-suffer-from-the-s-400-deal-with-russia/

 

[The Eagle]

Additionally, the U.S. may disrupt Turkey’s current and future systems export efforts, including those for the T129 attack helicopter, built by TAI under license from the Italian-British firm AgustaWestland. The T129, based on its predecessor, the A129 Mangusta, is a twin-engine multirole attack helicopter.

The T129 is powered by two LHTEC T800-4A turboshaft engines. Each engine can produce 1,014 kilowatts of power. The T800-4A is an export version of the CTS800 engine. LHTEC, which makes the engine, is a joint venture between the American company Honeywell and the British firm Rolls-Royce.

Last year Turkey signed a $1.5 billion deal with Pakistan for the sale of 30 T129s. Turkey needs U.S. export licenses to make the T129 deliveries to Pakistan — or any other foreign buyer. In December, the Philippine government selected the T129 for military use, and talks are ongoing for the sale of eight helos.

@cabatli_53 what's the other side of the story? Any alternate to this?

 

[Philip the Arab]

@cabatli_53 what's the other side of the story? Any alternate to this?

Do you know if Pakistan could do a JV with South Africa for a Rooivalk Mk2? No American sub-systems or engine so you can be that you can get the planes and in the numbers you want. Only thing that would be bad is you might need to invest a lot into it. In late 2016, Denel stated that it was conducting a series of talks with various nations on the Rooivalk Mk 2, including Egypt, Brazil, Nigeria, Poland and India.

 

[xbat]

Rooivalk uses french rotor, engine and some subsystems , produced in very low number, never faced with real enemy so not combat proven, never exported, look at the sensor suit! looks old fashioned . the gimbal looks like a toy.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Rooivalk uses french rotor, engine and some subsystems , produced in very low number, never faced with real enemy so not combat proven, never exported, look at the sensor suit! looks old fashioned . the gimbal looks like a toy.

Again Mk 2 will be upgraded and the engine isn't a problem. French won't care about exports to Pakistan, hell have you seen them care about the Saudis? You are doing false propaganda towards the Rooivalk because you have a bias and even @Bilal Khan (Quwa) agrees that Pakistan could do it. https://quwa.org/2018/09/04/for-pakistan-the-denel-rooivalk-mk2-is-a-credible-contingency-option-2/

 

[xbat]

what is exactly my false propaganda here , please let me know.

 

[Philip the Arab]

what is exactly my false propaganda here , please let me know.

South Africa had a hard time after the Apartheid, and were behind in developing the Rooivalk. You don't know the history of Denel and therefor don't understand what went through the Rooivalk design and development period. An MK 2 variant would be easy to develop with the only newer sub-systems needed and has commonality with the parts from the SA 330 Puma in Pakistani service which the T129 does not have whatsoever. Pakistan will also get TOT in some form which with the T129 is not available.

 

[xbat]

so what i said above all correct and not propaganda, thx for clarification.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Do you know if Pakistan could do a JV with South Africa for a Rooivalk Mk2? No American sub-systems or engine so you can be that you can get the planes and in the numbers you want. Only thing that would be bad is you might need to invest a lot into it. In late 2016, Denel stated that it was conducting a series of talks with various nations on the Rooivalk Mk 2, including Egypt, Brazil, Nigeria, Poland and India.

Pakistan may opt for Z-10 then. France may stop the deal considering India

 

[Philip the Arab]

Pakistan may opt for Z-10 then. France may stop the deal considering India

I think South Africa could use different sub-systems considering Paramount Group upgraded Mi-17s, and Mi-24s with indigenous sub-systems back in the mid 2000s. You have to remember that South Africa has a lot of highly educated, and knowledgeable engineers that can usually find solutions in the defense industry and that they are really, really good at reverse engineering which could be done with the engine. Does Pakistan want 30 helicopters, or 100? With a third partner who is cash-strapped such as Saudi Arabia or the UAE this would be feasible.

I quote " While there were problems in securing the core components from Eurocopter for export purposes in the past (which had pushed its Tiger platform in the same markets Denel was pursuing with the Rooivalk), Denel seems to be making progress with Eurocopter’s successor Airbus Helicopters on this front."

Denel needs at least commitment order of 70 Rooivalk Mk2s before it starts. This would replace all the Cobras, and supplement the T129 if that ever goes through. This could also open up cooperation with Denel even further for armored vehicles, missiles, etc.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

I think South Africa could use different sub-systems considering Paramount Group upgraded Mi-17s, and Mi-24s with indigenous sub-systems back in the mid 2000s. You have to remember that South Africa has a lot of highly educated, and knowledgeable engineers that can usually find solutions in the defense industry and that they are really, really good at reverse engineering which could be done with the engine. Does Pakistan want 30 helicopters, or 100? With a third partner who is cash-strapped such as Saudi Arabia or the UAE this would be feasible.

I quote " While there were problems in securing the core components from Eurocopter for export purposes in the past (which had pushed its Tiger platform in the same markets Denel was pursuing with the Rooivalk), Denel seems to be making progress with Eurocopter’s successor Airbus Helicopters on this front."

Denel needs at least commitment order of 70 Rooivalk Mk2s before it starts. This would replace all the Cobras, and supplement the T129 if that ever goes through. This could also open up cooperation with Denel even further for armored vehicles, missiles, etc.

Denel Rooivalk uses French infrastructure in many sub-systems with its engine. What is the status of Pakistan with France? I don't have much information

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Denel Rooivalk uses French infrastructure in many sub-systems with its engine. What is the status of Pakistan with France? I don't have much information

Nothing likely to come from there for a very very long time. Has been that way more than 15 years now.