Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[RangeMaster]

I advise PA to immediately cancel the TA-129 deal with Turkey and go for Z-10ME. Do not waste anymore time.

Do you think Trump like Pakistan? He still has 2 more years to go and worst, he gets re elected. That will be another 4 years....

Seems impossible but lets hope for a wise decision, PA needs them badly. Turkey should do something now.
30 Z-10ME+ 30 MI-35 will make a decent combination.

 

[Beast]

PA wants to maintain the relationship with the west, and isn't willing to put all eggs into one basket.

But the problem is the west is not willing to maintain good r/s with Pakistan. They are hostile to Pakistan. Why seek a futile road?

 

[Chimgathar]

We should just watch the farce silently
Hard slaps are the better teacher

Unfortunately that never works for Pakistan military planners/ leadership, uncle sam has arm twisted Pakistan many times in the past F-16s, financial/ military sanctions etc. And yet we had to see this day.

 

[Beast]

Seems impossible but lets hope for a wise decision, PA needs them badly. Turkey should do something now.
30 Z-10ME+ 30 MI-35 will make a decent combination.

Turkey cannot do anything. If Turkey are force to release US pastor without any condition. Whats make u think Turkey can do anything to US? Even TUrkey F-35 is at mercy of Trump. They couldnt even survive themselves, let alone Pakistan?

 

[RangeMaster]

Turkey cannot do anything. If Turkey are force to release US pastor without any condition. Whats make u think Turkey can do anything to US? Even TUrkey F-35 is at mercy of Trump. They couldnt even survive themselves, let alone Pakistan?

About Atak' American components. They can't replace them?

 

[Beast]

About Atak' American components. They can't replace them?

Those are crucial components and are very difficult to replace. China spend USD24 billion to build a massive industries and metallurgy just to get a few decent turbofan ,gas turbine and turboshaft, What makes Turkey with less than a trillion economy can do it better than China?

 

[CAN_TR]

About Atak' American components. They can't replace them?

Only the Engine is American, options are French or Polish made engines.

Those are crucial components and are very difficult to replace. China spend USD24 billion to build a massive industries and metallurgy just to get a few decent turbofan ,gas turbine and turboshaft, What makes Turkey with less than a trillion economy can do it better than China?

Turkey has better engineers.

 

[RangeMaster]

Those are crucial components and are very difficult to replace. China spend USD24 billion to build a massive industries and metallurgy just to get a few decent turbofan ,gas turbine and turboshaft, What makes Turkey with less than a trillion economy can do it better than China?

I was talking about European engines, with no strings attached.
Anyway, Lets see what happens...

 

[Beast]

Only the Engine is American, options are French or Polish made engines.

LOL,, that means underpowered plus another 4-5 years of testing before accepted for use? Do you think PA can wait that long

Turkey has better engineers.

How? By using American turboshaft?

 

[RangeMaster]

Only the Engine is American, options are French or Polish made engines.



Turkey has better engineers.

Thats what I was talking about, adding European systems.

 

[hussain0216]

LOL,, that means underpowered plus another 4-5 years of testing before accepted for use? Do you think PA can wait that long




How? By using American turboshaft?

I think he meant Turkey has been a NATO state for decades with access to NATO standard weapons and practices

Whilst Pakistan is happy to go down china route for many weapons it also dosent want to completely cut out western weapons

 

[Beast]

I was talking about European engines, with no strings attached.
Anyway, Lets see what happens...

That will still take another 4-5 years time to test it out. Replacing engine is no joke. All the test need to go thru again and its time consuming... There maybe a lot of other issue to sort out using another engine.

I think he meant Turkey has been a NATO state for decades with access to NATO standard weapons and practices

Whilst Pakistan is happy to go down china route for many weapons it also dosent want to completely cut out western weapons

They have access to only NATO practice. NATO is very pro christian. They treat muslim like outsider. I am sure Turkey didn't learn much from them. That is why they still need to use American turboshaft. Right?

 

[dBSPL]

There is no dependence on the subsystems in the ATAK helicopter. It's just a temporary dependence on the engine. 1400shp indigenous engine to be delivered in 2020. However, the timetable for the completion of the international certification process is 2026.

The US's problem with the LHTEC engine is directly related to Pakistan. In the long term, the US's blockade of sales to Pakistan is of benefit to China. This is proof of how the US is doing politics in the hands of novices.

In this case, the Turkey-Pakistan relations will not be damaged, but the US will have a huge strategic loss.

Turkey did not win this with deceived anyone. The helicopter was tested under the most difficult conditions and its effectiveness was proven. Now, as we read from the news, the Chinese contestant went to a new arrangement of the deficiencies found, sending a new helicopter for testing. I hope that they will meet Pakistan with an effective solution under the urgent need.

But like I said, this attitude about on US-Pakistan relations, rather than Turkey.

 

[Beast]

There is no dependence on the subsystems in the ATAK helicopter. It's just a temporary dependence on the engine. 1400shp indigenous engine to be delivered in 2020. However, the timetable for the completion of the international certification process is 2026.

The US's problem with the LHTEC engine is directly related to Pakistan. In the long term, the US's blockade of sales to Pakistan is of benefit to China. This is proof of how the US is doing politics in the hands of novices.

In this case, the Turkey-Pakistan relations will not be damaged, but the US will have a huge strategic loss.

Turkey did not win this with deceived anyone. The helicopter was tested under the most difficult conditions and its effectiveness was proven. Now, as we read from the news, the Chinese contestant went to a new arrangement of the deficiencies found, sending a new helicopter for testing. I hope that they will meet Pakistan with an effective solution under the urgent need.

But like I said, this attitude about on US-Pakistan relations, rather than Turkey.

Pakistan is under the impression from Turkey, approved of turboshaft from US for PA will not be a problem - Wrong

Pakistan is under the impression Turkey can quickly replace American engine with domestic one - Wrong (earliest 2026)

I am sure Philippine Armed forces will also think twice getting TA-129. Duterte, president of Philippine is not on very good term with US.....

While its is China who prove itself. When there is the impression that RD-93 engine will be blocked by India for JF-17. China step up and promised no such problem for the project and delivered. And now we are talking about blk 3 with AESA going to serve PAF soon.... China is a big power with leverage on Russian. Russian badly need Chinese money. Turkey which the most a regional power has no such leverage on western countries and USA.

 

[RangeMaster]

That will still take another 4-5 years time to test it out. Replacing engine is no joke. All the test need to go thru again and its time consuming... There maybe a lot of other issue to sort out using another engine.


They have access to only NATO practice. NATO is very pro christian. They treat muslim like outsider. I am sure Turkey didn't learn much from them. That is why they still need to use American turboshaft. Right?

If deal strucks and it goes too far then Z-10ME and MI-35 are only options left.
Mi-35 induction started. Soon Z-10ME will be back again for PA trials after comprehensive upgradation. Lets hope for promising results.