Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Armchair]

great buy, always a supporter of Turkish-Pakistani collaboration. But I've been saying this for a long time - attack helicopters are expensive as seen by this 50 million dollar price tag per aircraft. A simple rugged CAS aircraft locally developed similar to the BAe SABA would have cost $5-7 million per plane. What a gigantic price difference. What a giant amount of money for a handful of silver bullets.

 

[IceCold]

So are they coming or not?

 

[MIRauf]

BAe SABA, after support, infrastructure setup, spares, logistic and training will be much more then simple $5-7 Million / unit.

So if the current 30 are at $1.5 Billion, as you say $50 Million / unit, if PA pays close to $1Billion for next 30 units, will you wonder why the unit price dropped ? or will you wonder if the new units are less capable as their price is ~$33 Million / unit ?.

$1.5 Billion <> $50 Million / unit, there is lot more then just unit price included in that $1.5 Billion.

 

[Armchair]

yes keep making excuses for 50 million per aircraft. How low will it go? 40? 30? Never going to go below 30. The logic or lack thereof is mind boggling.

 

[The Accountant]

great buy, always a supporter of Turkish-Pakistani collaboration. But I've been saying this for a long time - attack helicopters are expensive as seen by this 50 million dollar price tag per aircraft. A simple rugged CAS aircraft locally developed similar to the BAe SABA would have cost $5-7 million per plane. What a gigantic price difference. What a giant amount of money for a handful of silver bullets.

Both if entirely different roles ... An aircraft load carrying capability is limited ... Airceafts have higher long term operational cost and cannot move with the armed forces ... They can operate from air bases only ...

 

[Armchair]

No, such aircraft don't have higher operational cost, in fact the reverse is true. Such aircraft are also very often designed with rough field performance. Point of airbases is moot - just look at how PA Cobras are deployed. They are deployed from bases. Bases from which a small stretch of road could easily serve CAS planes.

PA Cobras don't get deployed with armed formations, they are deployed behind in forward bases. You don't know what you're talking about. Sadly we only get half-baked answers from people who don't spend time thinking about what they type.

CAS is a role. Attack helicopters in PA service don't move with formations. They have very little loiter time. If you want to move with formations you need longer loiter times.

A little more reseach and thinking wouldn't hurt.

 

[The Accountant]

No, such aircraft don't have higher operational cost, in fact the reverse is true. Such aircraft are also very often designed with rough field performance. Point of airbases is moot - just look at how PA Cobras are deployed. They are deployed from bases. Bases from which a small stretch of road could easily serve CAS planes.

PA Cobras don't get deployed with armed formations, they are deployed behind in forward bases. You don't know what you're talking about. Sadly we only get half-baked answers from people who don't spend time thinking about what they type.

CAS is a role. Attack helicopters in PA service don't move with formations. They have very little loiter time. If you want to move with formations you need longer loiter times.

A little more reseach and thinking wouldn't hurt.

Can you please be specific which aircraft you are suggesting which can suit the bill i.e. lower cost, higher punch and true ability of CAS of percision strike ... Your proposal is good but kindly provide me name of aircraft which has night attack capability ... Capability oc percision strike weapon carying capability closed to attack helicopters and the capability to move with armed formations ...

All the helicopters operates from air bases but does that means that even in war time they will continue to do so ?

we are training our aircrafts to land on motorways whereas you are saying helicopters will keep on operating from airbase ... Why ?

No, such aircraft don't have higher operational cost, in fact the reverse is true. Such aircraft are also very often designed with rough field performance. Point of airbases is moot - just look at how PA Cobras are deployed. They are deployed from bases. Bases from which a small stretch of road could easily serve CAS planes.

PA Cobras don't get deployed with armed formations, they are deployed behind in forward bases. You don't know what you're talking about. Sadly we only get half-baked answers from people who don't spend time thinking about what they type.

CAS is a role. Attack helicopters in PA service don't move with formations. They have very little loiter time. If you want to move with formations you need longer loiter times.

A little more reseach and thinking wouldn't hurt.

Can you please be specific which aircraft you are suggesting which can suit the bill i.e. lower cost, higher punch and true ability of CAS of percision strike ... Your proposal is good but kindly provide me name of aircraft which has night attack capability ... Capability oc percision strike weapon carying capability closed to attack helicopters and the capability to move with armed formations ...

All the helicopters operates from air bases but does that means that even in war time they will continue to do so ?

we are training our aircrafts to land on motorways whereas you are saying helicopters will keep on operating from airbase ... Why ?

Further do enlighten me what will you do in the battlefield of kashmir and all mountaineous regions ? How a fixed wing aircraft will target even a single sniper hidden at a strategic location of a mountain ... Dont you remember the kargil incident ? They developed special chopers for mountain region whereas you so called expert is suggesting to eliminate them ...

 

[Armchair]

In war time, they operate from forward air bases. These could be secretive such as some potentially set up using the motorway. Any such place can also operate CAS planes. for a tiny fraction of the cost...

I've already in this thread noted the CAS plane I'd like to see but the issue isn't a specific plane, your issue is you're negating CAS planes. Let's get that right first before discussing what exact plane.

Here are some discussions you can read up on to understand the arguments for and against better:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/whither-now-the-attack-helicopter-problem-for-pa.545613/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/potential-turbo-prop-for-paf-calidus-b-250.542067/

 

[The Accountant]

In war time, they operate from forward air bases. These could be secretive such as some potentially set up using the motorway. Any such place can also operate CAS planes. for a tiny fraction of the cost...

I've already in this thread noted the CAS plane I'd like to see but the issue isn't a specific plane, your issue is you're negating CAS planes. Let's get that right first before discussing what exact plane.

Here are some discussions you can read up on to understand the arguments for and against better:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/whither-now-the-attack-helicopter-problem-for-pa.545613/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/potential-turbo-prop-for-paf-calidus-b-250.542067/

Specifics is the problem because cost of the helicopter itself is not that much it's mainly the cost of sub-systems ... So what is the overall package we are getting and if get the same overall package then will the cost of CAS aircraft be the same ?

For example A-10 the most successful CAS aircraft costs around 20 million a piece in today's prices and thats too without any ammunition, training and infrastructure cost ... Whereas A10 is an aircraft of the past and do not have latest tech (without additional pods) such as night vision and precision strike capabilities ...

 

[cabatli_53]

I believe Atak deal will pave the ways for more advanced Atak-2 cooperation in 2020's.

UMTAS missiles firing !

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[CHACHA"G"]

50Million for 1 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Am I gone mad or the price include some thing we don't know?????

 

[帅的一匹]

50Million for 1 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Am I gone mad or the price include some thing we don't know?????

What is the price of AH-1z?

 

[HRK]

What is the price of AH-1z?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/ah-1...-sale-to-pakistan.369316/page-56#post-8042114

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Atak 2 Insha Allah after T-129 ATAK I

 

[dBSPL]

Another detail, Pakistani helicopters will include TEI's new turboshaft with 99% probability.

Pakistan will not only get a helicopter, but also an common-engine that will not stick to international restrictions in terms of logistics.

Of course, millimeter-wave radar, infrared-guided missile seekers, as well as many sophisticated subsystems in the logistics will protected from US restrictions. With direct access to the mission computer, the Pakistani army will be able to load its Indigenous ammunitions.

This project will create a long-term cooperation in aviation. A significant portion of the total contract value is also required to provide this common infrastructure. this money will not go to Turkish companies completely, it will contain important off-set.