Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Khafee]

yea we will not settle for anything less that JV, complete ToT and handing over the bank accounts and giving the keys to their homes as well.
because we know these terms and its our muscle memory and compulsion that we throw them on the news about pen knives to buying a handful of utility vehicles because this is how we become strong brother.
long live the young Pakistani webforce generals

After reading this, even I dont want to post anymore. A bit too harsh bro.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Whats the harm in it bruv???

do you or your father buy a car? why dont you buy a car plant? then you can make your own car for your children too

makes economic sense yea?

T-129 Combat Footage;
Kurdish terrorist movements were detected by reconnaissance drones, they were then eliminated by T129 attack helicopters, Jandarma units on the ground, as well as f16 fighters.

is the footage from the terrorists?

After reading this, even I dont want to post anymore. A bit too harsh bro.

and sad as well because they have access to a computer and ability to write as well but lack basic comprehension of the world and economies of scale and scarcity of resources and challenges of allocating funds and having enough people to spare for... yes 30 units ToT manufacturing facilities .

real life is much harsher than that for our innocent pupoo's once they leave the nest they will find it our one way or another

 

[Khafee]

do you or your father buy a car? why dont you buy a car plant? then you can make your own car for your children too

makes economic sense yea?


is the footage from the terrorists?


and sad as well because they have access to a computer and ability to write as well but lack basic comprehension of the world and economies of scale and scarcity of resources and challenges of allocating funds and having enough people to spare for... yes 30 units ToT manufacturing facilities .

real life is much harsher than that for our innocent pupoo's once they leave the nest they will find it our one way or another

I concur, nobody is going to give anybody ToT for 30 units, and my personal opinion is that 30 is a ridiculous figure, as you can see from my posts on this thread.

 

[BetterPakistan]

For you information available is not reliable. Both Helicopters are used in Attack mode. But since you don't know the difference of different variations in use. I cannot discuss further. Also note nothing has been returned. They are still being used and data is send for evaluation. This I know because one of the Army Aviation Engineer who works on these helis and is a Major told me.

Do quote me kid so that I can get a notification and respond.

You have no source to prove your false information. Fennec and Puma as I said are utility helicopters basically. Go and search about the difference between a complete attack helicopter and lightly armed utility helicopter kiddo. I don't understand why kiddos like you come here and try to become experts

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Do quote me kid so that I can get a notification and respond.

You have no source to prove your false information. Fennec and Puma as I said are utility helicopters basically. Go and search about the difference between a complete attack helicopter and lightly armed utility helicopter kiddo. I don't understand why kiddos like you come here and try to become experts

Fennec is a light attack heli... acts more like a scout ...

 

[T-123456]

Fennec is a light attack heli... acts more like a scout ...

Some countries use it as attack helicopter(AS550C3 version).
Does Pakistan have any AS550C3's?
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as550-fennec-helicopter/

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Some countries use it as attack helicopter(AS550C3 version).
Does Pakistan have any AS550C3's?
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/as550-fennec-helicopter/

We operate both variants:

 

[Zarvan]

Z-11WB during its flight demonstration at China Helicopter Exposition 2017. Armed on the helicopter pylons are 2 CM-502KG anti-ship missiles and 4 TY-90 air-to-air missiles.

 

[ziaulislam]

For what?
30 helicopters?

honestly requirement of medium utility helicopter is >150
think about all the bell, puma that we need to replace along with to some extent the mi 17 though they are more on the heavier side. if we start now production wount happen before 2030

i dont think we need an attack helicopter JV though

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Nice of you to quote example of India
The problem or the point to note here is number of helicopters required.

Our requirment is of 180 200 systems max and will technical prefer two types for this. Getting a complete in house "Manufacturing" facility for 80 ofd choppers is

1. not feasible
2. not how we work

Our best approach to this can and should be to select the system, sign a deal where we can then

1. Upgrade and maintain them at home
2. Can make majority of frequently required spares at home
3. Get assembly setup of some sort
4. Get some parts made at home that we can export to the country of origin to be used in there other deals as well

This is both financially more feasible and also is reliable in troubled times so we can always keep yhem air worthy. Also generates some money.

Our requirements are for over 300 choppers.. and than some (if you add choppers operated by govt and civilian institutions)...
And its not like after 300 choppers we wont need any.. and would have to close down production.
Countries like Romania,Korea,Iran,Japan,Argentina,Poland,Turkey and many other nations are producing choppers and some of them have smaller fleets than Pak.
And if you think 300 choppers are somehow not worth it.. I wonder what would you say about JF program?

honestly requirement of medium utility helicopter is >150
think about all the bell, puma that we need to replace along with to some extent the mi 17 though they are more on the heavier side. if we start now production wount happen before 2030

i dont think we need an attack helicopter JV though

A medium category chopper could replace;
Bells
MIs
Pumas
Probably even Z9s etc.

 

[Arsalan]

Our requirements are for over 300 choppers.. and than some (if you add choppers operated by govt and civilian institutions)...
And its not like after 300 choppers we wont need any.. and would have to close down production.
Countries like Romania,Korea,Iran,Japan,Argentina,Poland,Turkey and many other nations are producing choppers and some of them have smaller fleets than Pak.
And if you think 300 choppers are somehow not worth it.. I wonder what would you say about JF program?


A medium category chopper could replace;
Bells
MIs
Pumas
Probably even Z9s etc.

In the 300 choppers you mentioned, we will need two or three different types at least. A single platform even if being produced at home will never fit in. That leaves us with 80-100 per type. Again, a number worthy for:

1. Complete maintenance and overhaul facility
2. Extensive assembly
3. Parts manufacturing for the parent company (to be exported to them)

Anyway, this is my personal opinion and i may be wrong with this. Not forcing my opinion upon you or anyone else. It is just that i think that the option i am pointing to will serve us better.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

In the 300 choppers you mentioned, we will need two or three different types at least. A single platform even if being produced at home will never fit in. That leaves us with 80-100 per type. Again, a number worthy for:

1. Complete maintenance and overhaul facility
2. Extensive assembly
3. Parts manufacturing for the parent company (to be exported to them)

Anyway, this is my personal opinion and i may be wrong with this. Not forcing my opinion upon you or anyone else. It is just that i think that the option i am pointing to will serve us better.

2,3 types.

Bro, we hardly have a dozen or 2 light choppers like Fennecs and Z9s.

Same case with sea kings.

 

[mikaal hassan]

In the 300 choppers you mentioned, we will need two or three different types at least. A single platform even if being produced at home will never fit in. That leaves us with 80-100 per type. Again, a number worthy for:

1. Complete maintenance and overhaul facility
2. Extensive assembly
3. Parts manufacturing for the parent company (to be exported to them)

Anyway, this is my personal opinion and i may be wrong with this. Not forcing my opinion upon you or anyone else. It is just that i think that the option i am pointing to will serve us better.

i think bilal khan (quwa) can give us a better opinion on helicopter production in pakistan and replacing of our old helicopters
we still got a chance of replacing our medium lift helicopters with one single helicopter company
http://quwa.org/2017/09/13/airbus-e...roduce-h215m-super-puma-transport-helicopter/

super puma h215m and if we want to go for a heavy lift helicopter we can get that as well with a similar engine and a lot of other similar components in h225m . we have got experience of using puma any way..AIRBUS i am sure will be willing to help us setup a factory for both these helicopters as we are already there customers .and with a requirement of lets say roughly 200 helicopters for all 3 armed forces and paramilitary forces and civilian market PUMA will be the best option

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Our requirements are for over 300 choppers.. and than some (if you add choppers operated by govt and civilian institutions)...
And its not like after 300 choppers we wont need any.. and would have to close down production.
Countries like Romania,Korea,Iran,Japan,Argentina,Poland,Turkey and many other nations are producing choppers and some of them have smaller fleets than Pak.
And if you think 300 choppers are somehow not worth it.. I wonder what would you say about JF program?


A medium category chopper could replace;
Bells
MIs
Pumas
Probably even Z9s etc.

Totally agree.
We could definitly profit from investing in a jack of all trades medium helicopter.
For the light/scout category we can purchase in numbers required.
But the bulk of the aviation fleet should be homegrown.

 

[MastanKhan]

@Khafee
Thank you for the tag---the easiest option is the chinese and the Italians can supply the EW package---but then italians can be prone to sanctions---.

So---then it falls back to the chinese helicopters---because the turks will also be prone to sanctions---unless they build their own helicopter from scrtach.

We still need the likes of the MI35 for work in fata and baluchistan---.

Bottom line is that we need to find a 40/60---60/40 or a 50/50 partner.

Private investors need to be encouraged. Unless private investors don't jump in---there will be issues with the defense sector.