Pakistan Army | News and Discussions

[Reichmarshal]

Funding issues.

Vt 4 must be have come free in the form of charity?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Vt 4 must be have come free in the form of charity?

Yes. Was payed for by money earned through DHA land corruption as well as Chanda in the armored regiment.

Obviously we’re not paying all at once for the massive VT-4 tank deal. There’s is a line of credit involved through A Chinese bank, Pakistan is getting a good deal on them and paying in stages. Just like the T-129 deal is being payed for through a Turkish bank. We cannot do that with Russia, we have no such friendship with them or history of large defense deals, they probably wanted a full upfront payment or were charging more than the PA considered acceptable.

Defense deals are not as simple as calling up Putin and asking him to deliver SU-57s and T-14s to us, unlike so many Pakistanis think so. Always the same “Why doesn’t PAF order joe Biden to make F36 6th generation fighter for us?” kind of logic. If Russia was so ready to sell us their best tank for a good price, do you really think we would be operating Al-Zarrars right now?

I would rather Pakistan buy a last generation tank from China than a next generation one from Russia and doom itself with the logistics and strings that would come with it, Russia would offer no payment or logistical support like China does, not to mention Russia is still much closer to India than it will be to Pakistan anywhere in the near future, Pakistani delusionals think we’ve already established close relations with Russia.

 

[Reichmarshal]

So if u know all this than why would u make an ignorant statement like the above...." funding issues".
No country pays for any defence related procurement with cash, except maybe the khaleeji arabs, n that too in a very few cases.
All are brought through loans payed over years.

I know it for a fact that when Bobby was the chief he was very concerned with the delay in procurement of tanks by AC Corps and hence conveyed a meeting of commandant HIT, corps commander 1 corps, DG AC Corps and bobby himself in chair.
He gave them all a dressing down and asked to why it is taking so long.
In one of the conversations which went like "do u people want t 90 if u do than tell me n I will talk to Putin my self".

The main reason why we did not go for the t 90 is that this series of tanks have reached the end of its cycle life with only cosmetic upgrades available.
Plus PA had a lot better and newer tanks available, from which it could buy and it eventually did.

 

[ghazi52]

Prime Minister Imran Khan arrives at the Inter-Services Intelligence Secretariat on May 24, 2020

 

[ghazi52]

Military Command attend meeting at ISI HQs chaired by PM

CJCSC General Nadeem Raza
COAS General Qamar Javed Bajwa
CNS Admiral Amjad Khan Niazi
CAS Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber
CGS Lt Gen Sahir Shamshad Mirza
DGISI Lt Gen Faiz Hameed

 

[Reichmarshal]

Then maybe We should have forced Bobby to become president of Pakistan if he had such a reach. No offense to the respected general, but if the armored corps has still ended up as you say it has, then did he not fail at his job too? Or did Putin tell him to put the phone down. Please don’t be unrealistic, there’s a lot more involved in a defense deal than what a country likes, wants or even needs.

I didn’t make an ignorant statement, I simply said the truth, what I said has been discussed in the VT-4 thread before. I obviously don’t mean we’re handing them a 5000 ka note when I mean cash, it simply means they want a full payment. We’re not regular customers for them and Pakistan has had issues with payment in the past, they won’t be as lenient with us as China. Even then, with no previous ties to Russia, it is much harder to make a defense deal with them and find someone to finance it than with China or Turkey, so yes, we did definitely have funding issues.

The T90 is not even close to the end of its life. The Abrams and Leo 2 designs are just as old as that, but these were specifically designed with upgradability in mind and their modernizations are still the best tanks in service today.

The T90MS (Provyv 3) is likely the best tank in the Low-weight class which Pakistan uses. Russia is still inducting those over T-14 too.

It’s armor, ERA, base armor, and APFSDS/ATGM/HEAT projectiles are significantly better than VT-4, On the other hand VT-4 has a significant electrical, mobility and technological edge, which is more down to Chinese technological industry being so advanced. I would pick a Russian tank over a Chinese one 10 times out of 10 too, if I could, as No one beats Russia in the basics of tank making. This doesn’t mean the VT-4 is a bad tank, quite the contrary, it’s also one of the best, miles better than anything india uses (they use old, original “S” variants) and it was the best option for us. However the MS is closer to the better western Leo 2A7+ and M1A2C Sep V3 designs…if you’re willing to pay for it that is.

Bobby will be president........soon

 

[Reichmarshal]

I dont know wt ur fascination with the Russian tank is but wt if a told u we tried it a couple of time but did not meet our expectations.....and like I said above we had better options and we chose one of them.

In a perfect world had things not gone south for the Ukrainian or by their own shenanigans, oplot was a wonderful machine with a lot of potential.

Vt 4 is an excellent machine but the chinese are cut throat businessmen first before any thing else and will go to any lengths to achieve it. So I on a personal note am very disappointed and and angry by their work ethics or should I say lack of it as at times it seems they are willing to go to extraordinary lengths to get their pound of flesh.

We need to stop seeing them as brothers and extract their pound of flesh from the cpec, as without cpec they are trapped.

And they know it.
It's time we too woke up and smelled the coffee

 

[iLION12345_1]

I dont know wt ur fascination with the Russian tank is but wt if a told u we tried it a couple of time but did not meet our expectations.....and like I said above we had better options and we chose one of them.

In a perfect world had things not gone south for the Ukrainian or by their own shenanigans, oplot was a wonderful machine with a lot of potential.

Vt 4 is an excellent machine but the chinese are cut throat businessmen first before any thing else and will go to any lengths to achieve it. So I on a personal note am very disappointed and and angry by their work ethics or should I say lack of it as at times it seems they are willing to go to extraordinary lengths to get their pound of flesh.

We need to stop seeing them as brothers and extract their pound of flesh from the cpec, as without cpec they are trapped.

And they know it.
It's time we too woke up and smelled the coffee

I don’t have any fascination with Russian tanks, I only look at facts and numbers. If PA really found Russian tanks to be “bad” then likely tested older T90S models or if we did test MS models there were other issues with induction, logistics would be a big one too. And of course I am not all knowing, maybe PA found issues with Russian tanks that aren’t public or I don’t know of. But we know how widely accepted they areI never called VT-4 bad either, I just made a comparison.

you’re right about the second part.
I also don’t like the “China iron brother” narrative, they are our good allies, but obviously they will look at their national interests first, you cannot blame them for that, that’s how it should be, in fact we need to blame ourselves for being so naive that we worry about other countries and not our own national interests. We need to work together with China but Not forget to put out country first.

 

[Akh1112]

Vt 4 must be have come free in the form of charity?

according to a credible Chinese insider, it was funded in large part by a gulf state.

 

[PakFactor]

according to a credible Chinese insider, it was funded in large part by a gulf state.

Who? And what would be some conditions attached if this is true.

 

[Akh1112]

Who? And what would be some conditions attached if this is true.

well i cant exactly name them, however, i dont know what conditions were attached to the sale. However i trust the person and the people that trust them.

 

[khanasifm]

Admin please take action against anyone posting Patwaris and zardaris statement

[emoji6]

 

[Reichmarshal]

This Bobby?

View attachment 747015

Who is this Bobby??

That's booby, we're talking about bobby

 

[Yasser76]

Who is bobby man that's what I'm asking.

General Sharif (retd), this is what happens when we use nicknames

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

General Sharif (retd), this is what happens when we use nicknames

Ohhh acha
Yes he deserves to be President not the decoration piece in PMship model.

But true president in presidential system.