Pakistan Army leads world forces with zero-percent suicide rate

[HughSlaman]

LOL... OK.. PA soldiers are not drawn from local population. They are specially ordered. And after receiving them, new brains with latest PA software are installed. It is clear now...

PA soldiers are indeed drawn from the local population; they are not the ones committing suicide though. That is what has been established in this thread.

The reason is most likely to do with the screening process to get ion the Army (people who easily give up and lose heart are unlikely to make it in at all), and then the mentality and the attitude that the Army training fosters, together with the sense of purpose and mission that a career in the Army gives people, all backed up by the Islamic faith that is the core of the military ideology in Pakistan.

Now, what is the problem?

 

[Sneaker]

PA soldiers are indeed drawn from the local population; they are not the ones committing suicide though. That is what has been established in this thread.

The reason is most likely to do with the screening process to get ion the Army (people who easily give up and lose heart are unlikely to make it in at all), and then the mentality and the attitude that the Army training fosters, together with the sense of purpose and mission that a career in the Army gives people, all backed up by the Islamic faith that is the core of the military ideology in Pakistan.

Now, what is the problem?

The problem is, it is not established. There is a paradox. You have a population which has comparable suicide rate but zero suicide in army. Some non-specific, vague, and too good to be true (or actually false) reasons attributed combined with very minimal institutions to support, study and analyse the situation. You can go either way, believing the the reasons, or not believing in the ISPR statement. Being a "patriot", you will not doubt ISPR but without any of that shackles I am completely skeptical, especially with the unprofessional language of the article (self-murdering themselves, really??) and virtually no scientific study being carried out.

 

[HughSlaman]

The problem is, it is not established. There is a paradox. You have a population which has comparable suicide rate but zero suicide in army. Some non-specific, vague, and too good to be true (or actually false) reasons attributed combined with very minimal institutions to support, study and analyse the situation. You can go either way, believing the the reasons, or not believing in the ISPR statement. Being a "patriot", you will not doubt ISPR but without any of that shackles I am completely skeptical, especially with the unprofessional language of the article (self-murdering themselves, really??) and virtually no scientific study being carried out.

As regards whether or not it is established: now that the claim has been made public, anyone can refute it by coming forward with a claim to know some specific person who committed suicide. If ISPR was to lie about this, they would be taking the serious risk of being immediately refuted by any one of the many Army-haters throughout Pakistan. It is very hard to imagine that they would be so stupid as to lie about this, since they are a very professional organization and would not do something to damage their own image.
The only serious explanation of the ISPR announcement is that they are telling the truth.

As regards the claim "There is a paradox. You have a population which has comparable suicide rate but zero suicide in army." There is no paradox, however, as I explained above. To quote myself:
The reason is most likely to do with the screening process to get in the Army (people who easily give up and lose heart are unlikely to make it in at all), and then the mentality and the attitude that the Army training fosters, together with the sense of purpose and mission that a career in the Army gives people, all backed up by the Islamic faith that is the core of the military ideology in Pakistan.

There you have a perfectly good explanation of why the suicide rate in the Army would be different from the suicide rate among civilians. Now what is the problem with this explanation?

 

[Sneaker]

As regards whether or not it is established: now that the claim has been made public, anyone can refute it by coming forward with a claim to know some specific person who committed suicide. If ISPR was to lie about this, they would be taking the serious risk of being immediately refuted by any one of the many Army-haters throughout Pakistan. It is very hard to imagine that they would be so stupid as to lie about this, since they are a very professional organization and would not do something to damage their own image.
The only serious explanation of the ISPR announcement is that they are telling the truth.

As regards the claim "There is a paradox. You have a population which has comparable suicide rate but zero suicide in army." There is no paradox, however, as I explained above. To quote myself:
The reason is most likely to do with the screening process to get in the Army (people who easily give up and lose heart are unlikely to make it in at all), and then the mentality and the attitude that the Army training fosters, together with the sense of purpose and mission that a career in the Army gives people, all backed up by the Islamic faith that is the core of the military ideology in Pakistan.

There you have a perfectly good explanation of why the suicide rate in the Army would be different from the suicide rate among civilians. Now what is the problem with this explanation?

LOL.. ISPR risks nothing. All patriots like you know how not to let down morale of the troops. How many times have we seen ISPR saying one thing and after sometime completely reverse picture emerge? From Kargil to missile tests, it has been too numerous to count. I am not saying they are lying here, but there is a chance. This is an extra-ordinary claim, needs that much evidence. All these screening, training, sense of purpose blah blah look good in a forum, but doesn't change ground realities. It inherently assumes one crucial thing, some how PA has been able to design that kind of training even though institutions and research required for this is virtually zero in Pakistan. Now, that is even an extra-ordinary paradox. I was puzzled by same kind of paradox with pakistani missile test results. While all nations suffered huge setbacks in developing missiles, pakistan, void of any major investment or institutions, seem to get every thing right, every damn time (well according to ISPR at least). Now all know how that paradox was solved..

 

[HughSlaman]

LOL.. ISPR risks nothing. All patriots like you know how not to let down morale of the troops. How many times have we seen ISPR saying one thing and after sometime completely reverse picture emerge? From Kargil to missile tests, it has been too numerous to count. I am not saying they are lying here, but there is a chance. This is an extra-ordinary claim, needs that much evidence. All these screening, training, sense of purpose blah blah look good in a forum, but doesn't change ground realities. It inherently assumes one crucial thing, some how PA has been able to design that kind of training even though institutions and research required for this is virtually zero in Pakistan. Now, that is even an extra-ordinary paradox. I was puzzled by same kind of paradox with pakistani missile test results. While all nations suffered huge setbacks in developing missiles, pakistan, void of any major investment or institutions, seem to get every thing right, every damn time (well according to ISPR at least). Now all know how that paradox was solved..

On Kargil I just disagree with you, the Army version of events was truthful; certain realities were not understood and so it was made to seem they were distorting things.

As regards the missile tests, you seem to be saying that ISPR lied about successful missile tests. Could you provide some evidence for this?

 

[Sneaker]

On Kargil I just disagree with you, the Army version of events was truthful; certain realities were not understood and so it was made to seem they were distorting things.

As regards the missile tests, you seem to be saying that ISPR lied about successful missile tests. Could you provide some evidence for this?

Sigh. I can't make you drink water. See, ISPR denied any pakistani military involvement in Kargil, so much so that they refused accept dead bodies. Now it is clear that from beginning PA (or paramilitary) was involved. Regarding missile test, do you have any one instance where ISPR said missile test was unsuccessful (Hint: It didn't). This topic has been discussed to death here. You can search and go through them to get your evidence. Or good villagers of Dadu can vouch for it, I guess.

 

[HughSlaman]

Sigh. I can't make you drink water. See, ISPR denied any pakistani military involvement in Kargil, so much so that they refused accept dead bodies. Now it is clear that from beginning PA (or paramilitary) was involved. Regarding missile test, do you have any one instance where ISPR said missile test was unsuccessful (Hint: It didn't). This topic has been discussed to death here. You can search and go through them to get your evidence. Or good villagers of Dadu can vouch for it, I guess.

Has ISPR explicitly claimed that "no missile test has ever failed"?

They may not report missile test failures, but so what? Are they required to mention their missile testing failures?

 

[Sneaker]

Has ISPR explicitly claimed that "no missile test has ever failed"?

They may not report missile test failures, but so what? Are they required to mention their missile testing failures?

Yeah, nice try... but they claimed a missile test success which we now know was a failure..... In one instance, they even came up with so revolutionary argument that..... well, leave that...

 

[FNFAL]

Morale Booster of an article. Probably funded on the directions of the armed forces.

And they had to first drag India with the comparisons.
Wonder if they did a surrender size comparisons so zealously??

 

[Junaid375]

We US or Indian soldiers realise that they are killing innocent people, they commit suicide or go into depression..
when Pakistani soldiers realise it, they leave army and join taliban-type groups (ilyas kashmiri, usman who was hanged last week etc) or if they dont leave, they help taliban-type groups to attack army (mehran base)

 

[PATHAN786KING]

indian sy behass krnay ka koi faida nai ya sirf zuban chla sktay hain dekho bat krte krte topic change kr k behas shuroo kr detay hain ronay do in ko ya waisye hi rotu shaklain hain

 

[PakGuns]

Legal ok. But who can ever stand in front of the PA legally? PA keeps in pocket the politicians, police and bureaucrats since 47. PA runs Pakistan not the bureaucrats or judges or the politicians. I think PA should be renamed to Pak Business Corporation.

So for PA the 180 million Pakistanis were incompetent to own industries?? So being a selfless and non profit organisation PA decided to take the ownership of all the companies. Seems very selfless to me.

two things:

1) legally or non legally aside. Tell me one civilized country in this whole world where the army owns so many businesses?

2) and the biggest question of all. Do you know if there is normalcy in the region and a true democratic govt. comes in Pakistan, the PA would loose control of their businesses?? If I owned so many companies I would hate to give them up really.

Maa ki ank.. Stop trolling little fella... Topic is SUICIDE rate...

The business is owned by the retired officers foundations. The GHQ does not get to dip into the FF, DHA budgets. The land is allocated to the GHQ by the GoP, the same as it is for the PAF, PN, Federal Government officials. This is a benefit that the GoP has sanctioned. The Army does not claim it by itself.

All officers, based on their pay grade, can opt for land as per the sanction of the Federal government of Pakistan. This is not illegal. Much of the land (the vast majority) was allocated at the outskirts. The Armed Forces reclaim it, develop it and offer amenities that are in demand through their housing authorities. This demand is what allows the officers to sell the land at good prices.

I have looked at this issues for the past 20 years, and I can tell, there is a lot of hyperbole about it. The appreciation of these properties is due to the interest of the civilians. Most DHA's accommodate civilians now.

Sir, he's going off topic all the way to bring in his misery....and you're replying him 

 

[Assault Rifle]

LOLZZ @Pakistani members who are claiming that there are no suicides in Muslim armies like Pakistan.
Even Turkey which is 99% muslim saw 1200 military suicides since 2001 incl 40+ suicides this year.

 

[Slayer786]

But why do the Indian soldiers keep committing suicides? Are they unhappy because they are fighting on the wrong side? Are unhappy observing the atrocities committed on the innocent?
I mean every year they are committing suicides in their hundreds. Something wrong must be corrected here to avoid these useless deaths.

 

[HughSlaman]

LOLZZ @Pakistani members who are claiming that there are no suicides in Muslim armies like Pakistan.
Even Turkey which is 99% muslim saw 1200 military suicides since 2001 incl 40+ suicides this year.

Remember that ideologically, the Turkish Army is very anti-Islamic.
The claim being discussed is specifically about the zero suicides in the Pakistani Army.
Ideologically, the Pakistani Army is very firmly Islamic, as can be seen in the motto "Iman, Taqwa, Jihad fi Sabilillah": Faith, Piety, Struggle in the Path of Allah.

There would be no need for the Army to make such a claim if they did not have evidence it was true. They can easily be refuted if it is false, since virtually everyone in Pakistan has a near or distant relative in the Army, and suicides would not be hidden for long.