PAKISTAN ARMY INDUCTS NEW ARMOURED CARRIERS FOR COUNTERTERRORISM OPERATIONS

[arslank03]

weird, i was under the impression HIT might actually be a reasonable model for others to follow in Pak, hear me out.

While HIT isnt always innovating, nobody in Pak really is anyway.

What HIT is good at is what we have been wanting from the Pak Industries, HIT indigenizes, they just don't thump their chest about it...

Just a few days ago, we saw that 87% of the gun for the VT4 is locally sourced, while we are still importing bits, we take the inputs we CAN develop and substitute locally and do it. Pac, KSEW dont do this, they either set up a production line and take inputs from elsewhere or simply call upon the OEM for even tiny bits. I remember, guys at APF were complaining about CATIC prices for small wiring harnesses, why couldn't we do this ourselves? Whereas HIT seemingly starts off somewhere, i.e the gun being Chinese, look at what parts of it can be sourced from local sources, what parts of it we can do ourselves, then the bits we cant do, we go back to the OEM. Sure, they arent Innovating, but they seem to be more on track to do things the 'right way' than any of the other premier organizations in pak.


Atleast, this is my very basic outside interpretation, i dont know much abiut HIT but this is what i have seen. @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

 

[Zarvan]

I can see in future, 1 high ranker in APC and foot soldiers in Hilux following it. So what is the point?

This time it seem we are going big. It seem our standard Hilux may get changed for good. Specially in operational areas.

 

[The Terminator]

I don’t see how the trooper will be able to fire MG-3 without uncovering his head. The top is open, so if the Machine gun have has a minimum angel of 200 degree for covering the front, where and how the Trooper will stand and install the MG-3 ?
It will be on the front as it’s usually seen on the current fleet and that means still now cover and protection for the most important weapon of this vehicles.
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That's remotely controlled just like the turret of a tank with relevant sensors suite.

If it seems to be an overkill for you then you can mount your desired MG on the turret ring and slap the desired armor protection too just like what US does with the Humvees etc. Vehicle platform is versatile and has nothing to do with your machine gun's choice.

 

[Signalian]

Frankly, the only short-term solution I can think of is to basically convert every defense R&D engineer and scientist into a commissioned officer (e.g., a short-service commission) that gives them a solid 10-year contract, a fair starting rank (i.e., prestige), and -- hopefully -- a road ot building genuine R&D leadership within the armed forces. So, eventually, several of these officers (who'd also be experienced scientists) could head up PAC, SUPARCO, etc, as 1-star or 2-star generals. It's crazy, and it probably makes no sense, but it's bizarre enough that it might just work in our specific case.

PC’s are already fulfilling that role in technical institutions like EME, MCS etc. They can either stay in Army or leave after 6 years.

Yes or send some officers abroad for specialised degrees.

Already happening.

As an example-
Major General Rahat Naseem Ahmed Khan, nswc, psc, fsc (F), qsl was commissioned on 5 September, 1990 in 1st Battalion, the Frontier Force Regiment. He is a graduate of Command & Staff College Quetta, College Interarmees de Defense, France and National Defense University Islamabad.

 

[Super Falcon]

Are you sure ?

@farooqbhai007 @RescueRanger

Reports are these are in consideration for SSG in very small batch but zarvan Bhai if we can get them and use them as anti air raft short range missile they are very easy to hide and can bring a indian apache down with a near surprised missile hit leaving apaches little time to react

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

HIT is due a major technological overhaul similar to how the Navy has modernized the Ship building with help of European partners

A similar Upgrade of infrastructure is needed in order to producer vehicles similar to the items we are acquiring from China

We do badly need a Engineering Research Branch to be connected with HIT which produces International Quality products

From Initial Concept , Production of Prototypes and Approval for Larger budget type setup

The whole Hilux type setup just does not works in modern warfare

 

[Super Falcon]

Feng Dong CSK 181 Will be bought for muti missions drone and liotering munitions operations with thede

 

[Signalian]

HIT is due a major technological overhaul similar to how the Navy has modernized the Ship building with help of European partners

A similar Upgrade of infrastructure is needed in order to producer vehicles similar to the items we are acquiring from China

We do badly need a Engineering Research Branch to be connected with HIT which produces International Quality products

From Initial Concept , Production of Prototypes and Approval for Larger budget type setup

The whole Hilux type setup just does not works in modern warfare

How many Mohafiz series or protected vehicles made by HIT have been destroyed so far ?

 

[iLION12345_1]

PC’s are already fulfilling that role in technical institutions like EME, MCS etc. They can either stay in Army or leave after 6 years.


Already happening.

As an example-
Major General Rahat Naseem Ahmed Khan, nswc, psc, fsc (F), qsl was commissioned on 5 September, 1990 in 1st Battalion, the Frontier Force Regiment. He is a graduate of Command & Staff College Quetta, College Interarmees de Defense, France and National Defense University Islamabad.

PCs don’t have to join the army after college anymore, and no offense to any PCs, but they’re generally not the best of what comes to EME, MCS, CAE etc because of how the merit system is structured, it’s a good idea, but it needs a fundamental revamp of the PC system to be effective.

How many Mohafiz series or protected vehicles made by HIT have been destroyed so far ?

Few. Not because they’re good, but because there’s so few of them and they’re not really used in war zones. The most you’ll see mohafiz is patrolling bases in Rawalpindi, Lahore and Karachi it seems.

 

[Signalian]

Few. Not because they’re good, but because there’s so few of them and they’re not really used in war zones. The most you’ll see mohafiz is patrolling bases in Rawalpindi, Lahore and Karachi it seems.

More details please

 

[iLION12345_1]

weird, i was under the impression HIT might actually be a reasonable model for others to follow in Pak, hear me out.

While HIT isnt always innovating, nobody in Pak really is anyway.

What HIT is good at is what we have been wanting from the Pak Industries, HIT indigenizes, they just don't thump their chest about it...

Just a few days ago, we saw that 87% of the gun for the VT4 is locally sourced, while we are still importing bits, we take the inputs we CAN develop and substitute locally and do it. Pac, KSEW dont do this, they either set up a production line and take inputs from elsewhere or simply call upon the OEM for even tiny bits. I remember, guys at APF were complaining about CATIC prices for small wiring harnesses, why couldn't we do this ourselves? Whereas HIT seemingly starts off somewhere, i.e the gun being Chinese, look at what parts of it can be sourced from local sources, what parts of it we can do ourselves, then the bits we cant do, we go back to the OEM. Sure, they arent Innovating, but they seem to be more on track to do things the 'right way' than any of the other premier organizations in pak.


Atleast, this is my very basic outside interpretation, i dont know much abiut HIT but this is what i have seen. @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @JamD

Reminds me of a post i made a while back.

Pakistan's next generation national warships: Jinnah Class Frigates

Yep agree. For result oriented ship building capability that can sustain & modernize this above point is extremely important. We need to gel commercial sector with defense industry. Navy needs to give tenders for small or even bigger whatever components from local industry. Also I...

defence.pk

Post 89.
HIT used to be a very good model when it had the funding and multiple open ended projects back in the 90s and early 2000s. Then it all went downhill.

 

[iLION12345_1]

More details please

A majority of the PAs vehicle losses in the WoT are the usual Hilux/other double cabin or unarmored trucks. There’s hundreds of photos of such vehicles after ambushes and IED attacks.

The few HIT made armored vehicles that were lost I do know of are one Mohafiz in the early years (2007-9) (there might be two that have actual photos attributed to them, but I can only remember one right now, I believe the photo is actually somewhere on this forum) and two further armored vehicles in ZeA, two armored hiluxs I believe. We don’t know how many occupants survived, or if they did, it was because of the vehicle. Information about these older Ops is scarce, at least to me, I was too young, maybe someone else remembers.
There have also been at least a couple IED hits to MRAPs that soldiers have walked away from but they didn’t count as HIT armored vehicles. I’ve also seen an armored land cruiser that was involved in an incident (Baluchistan I believe, it was more recent), they kept calling it a crash but one could tell it wasn’t just a crash, it was also armored by HIT, the occupants had survived. HIT had also armored PAs M113s and other APCs with cages and sandbags starting in the Swat ops when RPGs and HMGs became an apparent threat. Given we lost some 5~ tanks, it wouldn’t be impossible to assume we lost APCs and armored vehicles as well.

(there’s most definitely more, it’s just that details are scarce, you can find some media on places like the former live leak and Reddit, but I wouldn’t suggest that for many people)

Now why do I say they’re bad? Because at the end of the day they’re not built for this from the ground up. No matter how much armor you put on a hilux or a defender, there will be some spots you cannot cover unless you do a rather extreme conversion, and if you add this much armor without adding the appropriate tires and rims, axle and chassis reinforcements, engine upgrades and steering changes then you’re making the vehicle worst than better. These vehicles are at most rated against 7.62x39 or 7.62x51 Ammo, which isn’t the biggest threat being faced when your enemy has RPGs and heavier machine guns. And this protection isn’t all around, in an ambush where you’re being targeted from every direction, something will make it through.
And then of course there’s the biggest culprit, IEDs. It’s nearly impossible to modify a normal vehicle to be IED resistant.

I have a feeling the army doesn’t use the Mohafiz in hot areas on purpose, maybe it’s underpowered and not well armored, maybe they don’t have enough of them and hence there’s a poor logistical chain. Same goes with armored hiluxs and other vehicles, it takes a rather uneconomical amount of money to armor an hilux that will still be vulnerable to more than half the threats that it could face, and you’ve already brought up how underpowered the vehicle is (that’s one of the major reasons the army has never considered armoring it’s hiluxs, because you add a ton of armor and now it’s undriveable especially on bad terrain, but people keep pushing for such armoring)
it’s like giving every soldier a Kevlar vest and sending them out against enemies with AKs, sure you could say “we armored our soldiers” and spend a lot of money on it, but the net effect is minimal.

What I don’t understand is why PAs MRAPs see so little comparative use in BL and Ex-FATA given how many they have, I know they’re used out there unlike so many people like to cry about, but I’ve always maintained that they’re either being used poorly or not enough, like the army is too afraid to lose said assets because of the cost.

The only long term solution is to acquire or make purpose built vehicles, in small numbers, for use only in Hot areas. We simply don’t have the funds for large scale introduction at the moment, but then it comes the question of wether the brass thinks it’s more economical to use the large pool of human lives and not change the system. Or keep the lives and buy expensive armored vehicles that aren’t that useful in a conventional setting, that’s just the unfortunate reality of thought process when you’re managing a force this big. People become expendable at certain stages.​

 

[LKJ86]

 

[Major Jutt]

mengshi GEN-III CSK-182 4x4

Amazing!!

 

[Inception-06]

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Why installing unguided Rocket launchers on many different vehicles? Or this a special missile carrier system ? What’s the purpose of this system on this specific vehicle ?