Pakistan Army Didn't Surrender to Indian Army

[Sully3]

A detailed letter to your universities, explaining your present predicament with regards to understanding basic English language, and your complete lack of general knowledge, might entitle you to a full refund.

universities dont offer refunds buddy pull your skirt back up. you are embarrassing yourself here.

 

[Tom M]

Lol, look at this clown post, this bharti will "liberate" GB, first try saving a dozen out of control territories then talk about Pakistan. You will be made to keep on draining resources in IOK until Pakistan wants, then it will be liberated.

Draining resources ??? LOL

Do take a look at who's economy is nosediving since 1990's, yours or ours. Then go and dream about some liberation.

 

[Windjammer]

I find it hard to believe since, Sam Manekshaw was the field marshal of Indian army, firstly he has no business discussing IAF losses, hence would like to see some proof on that.

Seems you have the habit of washing the soap before hands, had you bothered watching the video @ post#14, you wouldn't be proving so dense, as a field marshal, he was giving daily updates to the then PM Indra Gandhi.

Secondly capturing 54 Indian soldiers must be really big deal for you, and out here we captured 93000 of you
If 54 Indian POWs from 1971 war, filled the grounds of Pakistani POW camps, they must be pretty small camps or pretty huge prisoners, if there were more, will again need proof.

Being a victim of your own propaganda mechanism, one can just laugh at your retarded remarks,
Do you really see only 54 Indian POW in just one camp where they are being addressed by Bhutto.
Let me give you a history lesson,
There were over 50 IAF pilots as POW alone.

Draining resources ??? LOL

Do take a look at who's economy is nosediving since 1990's, yours or ours. Then go and dream about some liberation.

The Indian farmers will be thrilled to hear about your coffers being full.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

so if i convert into islam today and start narrating theories that "my muslim ancestors ruled hindus", how wud you justify it ?

Tajik or uzbek or afghanis were looterey, who came here and ran back.
Mughals barely ruled for 200+ yrs and after that they started to loose their territories. Hindu or muslim both were treated in same manner by british. so dont exclude your self from such slavery.

first you will not convert and if you did you will definatily believe what we are believing. since you are not there and cant be you have no capacity to think from up there.

As thread has nothing to do with this topic but,

1) i asked you to explain 1000 yrs of muslim rule on india. Pls explain your so called fact ?
2) Muslim issue in india has little to do with so called 1000 yrs rule stated by you. Muslim appeasement by certain parties here makes the muslims controversial bcoz muslim votes in a block.
3) No indian here prefer to be compared with any pakistani pashtun or muslim invader in past. so leave aside this inferior species etc.
4) Again, Vedic age goes with 4 yugas and we exactly know what we used to be in previous yugas and present one. Btw, i am not a hindu but hindus here links theirself to Ram or Krishan of Dwapar or Treta yug when even islam or your so called invaders were not even born.

Btw, hinduism is a modern term. it is called as Sanatan Dharm.

Rest of your post is laughable. You clearly have no idea about india or their religions which goes past even b4 the birth of islam.



Watever pakistan is now but present fact is, your own ugly faces are eating their own creators.
Karma always haunts you back. So called land of invaders called Afghanistan is chewing your own so called butyful faces.

nice reply to Kaptan i think you were talking about Ghandhi right.

 

[Tom M]

The Indian farmers will be thrilled to hear about your coffers being full.

And you think it's because of Indian spending on military purpose in Kashmir ???? Well then I totally agree, Pakistan is making Kashmir issue too costly for India to manage. LOL

 

[Windjammer]

And you think it's because of Indian spending on military purpose in Kashmir ???? Well then I totally agree, Pakistan is making Kashmir issue too costly for India to manage. LOL

That's your own wild imagination, i never mentioned Kashmir anywhere.

 

[Tom M]

That's your own wild imagination, i never mentioned Kashmir anywhere.

Ulta chor kotwal ko dante???

FYI, it was you who tagged me in this post, not the other way around.

When did I say you mentioned Kashmir ????

Check my previous comment to which you had replied and to whom and what it was meant for. You will understand the context Mr.

 

[Windjammer]

Ulta chor kotwal ko dante???

FYI, it was you who tagged me in this post, not the other way around.

When did I say you mentioned Kashmir ????

Check my previous comment to which you had replied and to whom and what it was meant for. You will understand the context Mr.

Chor Machaye shor...

It was you who dragged in economy and doing Tarzan over it.

 

[prashantazazel]

if we are being honest it was impossible for any country or armed forces to keep hold of east Pakistan 1000's of miles away having india in-between the two countries.

But facts are India used terrorism as tool to spilt pakistan since those days, tried to use terrorism against sri lanka and failed and again used terrorism to hurt pakistan after 9/11 but ultimately failed again. India is the sole father of spreading systematic terrorism in all its neighbouring countries.

We did not fail in sri lanka. The political leadership changed the plan to capture half of it.
We could have airdropped troops and easily captured a lot of land (that was the initial plan).
At that time, we had a thinking Indian subcontinent = India. Anyways, the real conquest would be economic/social/cultural now. We aren't interested in a war anymore, unless you initiate.

 

[American Pakistani]

Draining resources ??? LOL

Do take a look at who's economy is nosediving since 1990's, yours or ours. Then go and dream about some liberation.

These last 4 decades Pakistan is busy in wars one after another, nothing to do with India or IOK. That' what I said, until Pakistan wants.

 

[ziaulislam]

Their is no shame in surrending to 1:50 for a lost cause
The moral if army was down seeing its fighting an.unpopular war.
Anyone blaming the army here is stupid...i would have given up arms too. Niazi decision there was realistic..it saved a savour relationship between two countries(pak-bengladesh) for ever

 

[Soumitra]

Indian Army's misleading tweet about 1971 war adds to culture of jingoistic misinformation, puts Bangladesh govt in tight spot
IndiaGarga Chatterjee
Dec, 17 2017 21:57:49 IST


On 16th December, 2017, the official Twitter and Facebook accounts of the Additional Directorate General of Public Information (ADGPI), IHQ of MoD (Indian Army) with more than 5 million followers combined, wrote the following: “16 December 1971. On this day, 46 years ago, 93,000 Pakistani troops raised white flags and surrendered to the #IndianArmy. #IndoPakWar71 #VijayDivas #ThisDayThatYear @SpokespersonMoD @PIB_India”.



This is simply false. This falsehood was retweeted and shared thousands of times, thus adding to the culture of jingoistic misinformation that exists around such matters. A popular Twitter account called @IndiaHistorypic with about 5.5 lakh followers also tweeted the same sort of misinformation: “1971 :: Pakistan Soldiers Surrender to Indian Army In Bangladesh. 93000 Soldiers Surrendered and Were Sent Back to Pakistan” (they have since removed the tweet after this author pointed it out). The ADGPI of the Indian Army repeated the same sort of false information about the surrender at Sylhet, again in both its Twitter and Facebook accounts, where it wrote: “16-17 December 1971. Surrender at Sylhet. Two Pakistani Brigadiers signed surrender documents in presence of the then Commanding Officer 4/5 GR(FF), Lt Col A B Harolikar. 107 officers, 219 JCOs & 6,229 other ranks of Pak surrendered to the #IndianArmy #VijayDiwas #IndoPakWar71”.

This tweet was even retweeted by @MIB_India, the official Twitter account of Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, Government of India. Spreading of such misinformation by such powerful government agencies is a matter of serious concern. The truth is, in the territory of Bangladesh, no surrender to the Indian Army took place. All the surrenders were to the Joint Command of the Indian and Bangladesh Forces in the Eastern Theatre.



In the 1971 Bangladesh liberation struggle, the India Bangladesh Joint Command forces or Mitro Bahini (alliance army, an alliance between Indian Army and Bangladesh Liberation forces such as Muktibahini and Mujibbahini) as it is called by Bengalis, provided the final push in what was already a widespread guerrilla struggle. The huge role of the Bangladesh forces was stressed yesterday by Abhay Krishna, the current General Officer Commander-in-Chief (GOC-in-C), Eastern Command of the Indian Army in the “Victory Day” function in Kolkata.

There was widespread intelligence on the ground that Pakistani Army didn’t have. Huge swathes of East Bengal were held by local freedom fighter armies controlled either by various left-wing groups and pro-Awami League groups such as Tangail’s Kaderia Bahini led by Bongobir Kader “Bagha” Siddiqui. Then there was widespread sabotage of Pakistani installations including the daring amphibious attack by Bengali freedom fighters on the Chittagong port that crucially disabled the Pakistani Navy and supplies including oil. Muktibahini units fought alongside the Indian Army as part of the joint command during the final push.


In fact, the first attack in that final assault was done by the rudimentary Bangladesh air force. And all this happened in the context of years of Bengali nationalist political mobilisation in Bangladesh. To reduce this to an Indian Army versus Pakistani Army war may suit certain narratives, but it certainly doesn’t match historical facts on the ground that are well-documented for anyone who would care to look. And nothing established this fact more clearly that the text of the final surrender document of the Pakistani forces that occurred in Dhaka on 16th December, 1971, at the Race Course ground. The full text of that document is reproduced below.

“Instrument of Surrender
Signed on December 16, 1971

The PAKISTAN Eastern Command agree to surrender all PAKISTAN Armed Forces in BANGLA DESH to Lieutenant-General Jagjit Singh Aurora, General Officer Commanding of the Indian and BANGLA DESHI forces in the Eastern Theatre. This surrender includes all PAKISTAN land, air and naval forces as also all para-military forces and civil armed forces. These forces will lay down their arms and surrender at the places where they are currently located to the nearest regular troops under the command of Lieutenant-General JAGJIT SINGH AURORA.
The PAKISTAN Eastern Command shall come under the orders of Lieutenant-General JAGJIT SINGH AURORA as soon as this instrument has been signed. Disobedience of orders will be regarded as a breach of the surrender terms and will be dealt with in accordance with the accepted laws and usage of war. The decision of Lieutenant-



General JAGJIT SINGH AURORA will be final, should any doubt arise as to the meaning or interpretation of the surrender terms.
Lieutenant-General JAGJIT SINGH AURORA gives a solemn assurance that personnel who surrender shall be treated with dignity and respect that soldiers are entitled to in accordance with the provisions of the GENEVA Convention and guarantees the safety and well-being of all PAKISTAN military and para-military forces who surrender. Protection will be provided to foreign nationals, ethnic minorities and personnel of WEST PAKISTAN origin by the forces under the command of Lieutenant-General JAGJIT SINGH AURORA.

[Signature]
(JAGJIT SINGH AURORA)
Lieutenant-General
General Officer Commanding in Chief
Indian and BANGLA DESH Forces in the
Eastern Theatre

[Signature]
(AMIR ABDULLAH KHAN NIAZI)
Lieutenant-General
Martial Law Administrator Zone
Commander Eastern Command (PAKISTAN)”



Nowhere is the term “Indian Army” mentioned in this Instrument of Surrender. Spreading of misinformation from an official Twitter account of ADGPI, Indian Army is a serious matter since the ADGPI is entrusted with the function of “Public Relation (PR) activities, Media Relations and Monitoring, Info release, Publicity, Image Projection and Perception Management (PM). It primarily aims to establish conditions that lead to confidence in our Army and its readiness to conduct ops in peacetime and war.”



Surely, in such efforts, truth should not be a casualty in an army formed under the aegis of a constitution whose motto is “Satyameva Jayate” (Truth always wins). This is also in violation of the “Policy on use of Social Media by All Ranks in the Indian Army” which has been posted by the Facebook account of the ADGPI, Indian Army, which clearly states: “Users of social media, both serving and veterans are cautioned to verify the facts before accepting before accepting content circulation in Social Media as truth”. Does this not apply to the people running the official ADGPI social media accounts themselves?

Why is it so important that the Joint Command was mentioned in the surrender document and not the Indian Army, as ADGPI would like Indian citizens to believe? Firstly, that was the reality. But from the New Delhi stand-point in 1971, this was much more than a technicality. New Delhi always maintained during its feverish diplomatic efforts in the United Nation and various capitals that it was not the aggressor (which was Pakistan’s constant charge) and that they were merely assisting the already existing armed liberation struggle in the context of a huge refugee influx when no other way was left and that too after Pakistan’s declaration of war.

New Delhi maintained this as its position till the very end. In fact, this is why it is said that Indira Gandhi insisted that the first assault in the Eastern front happen by the hand of a Bengali liberation force. This is the now legendary air sortie. Today, when America is Narendra Modi's dear friend, it is easy to forget the Cold-war politics at the United Nations, when the Soviet Union siding with India and Bangladesh was crucial to the success of the liberation struggle and keeping out China and USA from direct involvement in the Bangladesh war, thus averting a multi-front struggle that would be disastrous.

In 1971, if the Indian Army claimed that it went in to defeat Pakistan Army all by itself and hand over East Bengal to Bangladeshis, it would have been disastrous. Thankfully, the Indian Army was not in the business of making random claims and quasi-political statements in public forum and TV shows for public consumption. It let the civilian government do the talking, as it should, as per the Constitution. The Indian Army is not an autonomous institution and is squarely under the Ministry of Defence just like any other Union government entity is under its corresponding ministry.


Such statements by the Indian Army may also have consequences. The obvious one is, of course, that Indian citizens are being fed misinformation about the past of the army they pay for by that very army. But outside the Indian Union, in the People's Republic of Bangladesh, a crypto-Islamist narrative exists that uses every opportunity to play down and dilute the crucial role of the Indian Army in the Bangladesh liberation struggle using various conspiracy theories.

Misinformation propagated by official Indian Army sources only adds credibility to the mischievous and communally inspired conspiracy theory peddlers for whom the Hindus of Bangladesh are essentially leftover Indian citizens and the role of the Indian Army in the liberation struggle is synonymous with some “Hindu” role in the liberation struggle that does not fit their narrative. The government of the People’s Republic of Bangladesh is trying to fight these kinds of communal elements and this sort of false claim by the Indian Army puts the government in a very tough spot. Delhi does not exactly have a good reputation in Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka. Recently, Maldives switched to the Chinese camp. New Delhi might want to do a bit of honest soul-searching about why this is the case.

The misinformation that the ADGPI is part of a larger narrative that exists in the Indian Union’s domestic space. In the Indian Union, the 1971 liberation war has a certain crypto-communal subtext, as being a reversal of the 1947 religion based Partition. It is looked upon as a negation of the Two-Nation theory with the result of that being a validation of the favourite Hindu nationalist “Akhand Bharat” or One Nation idea. But the reality is, 1971 didn’t reverse 1947. East Bengal didn’t join the Indian Union after 1971. It charted its own path, demonstrating that the reality of South Asia is not of one composite nationality or two religion-based nationalities, but of multiple language based nationalities.



Published Date: Dec 17, 2017 09:50 pm | Updated Date: Dec 17, 2017 09:57 pm

@Irfan Baloch @DESERT FIGHTER @The Eagle @Kaptaan @snow lake @Taimoor Khan

India-Pakistan 1971 war: Insulting Army is wrong
Rejoinder to Garga Chatterjee's article in Firstpost.
VOICES
| 5-minute read | 19-12-2017

HARSHA KAKAR
@kakar_harsha

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his article titled "Indian Army's Misleading Tweet About 1971 War Adds to a Culture of Jingoistic Misinformation, Puts Bangladesh Government in a Tight Spot", presents a lopsided view of the 1971 war victory. The article, published in Firstpost on December 17, is based on a few tweets - that were subsequently removed - from the Indian Army's public information department's (ADGPI) Twitter handle and incorrect information. The author clearly lacks knowledge of military operations.

A few facts about the war need to be clarified for the information of Garga. The war was fought jointly by the Indian armed forces and the Mukti Jodhas (Bangladeh's freedom fighters). The overall control remained with the Eastern Command of the Indian Army. The Multi Jodhas were not an independent force operating on their own but were recruited, trained and equipped by Indian forces. Most former Mukti Jodha members, who attend Vijay Diwas celebrations in Kolkata, fondly remember Indian Army officers, who trained them. There is immense mutual respect among the soldiers who fought together.

Garga has distorted facts and even failed to read the account given by Lt Gen JFR Jacob, the man sent by India to Dacca, to have the surrender negotiated and signed. Garga also has no inkling of inputs from Mukti Jodhas, hence makes irresponsible comments in his article on the surrender ceremony. The final surrender document was signed by Lt Gen AAK Niazi, the commander of the Pakistan Army in erstwhile East Pakistan, and Lt Gen JS Aurora, the eastern Army commander.

The surrender happened before the Indian Army and in full public view at the Dacca Race Course. Niazi handed over his epaulette and revolver to Aurora and his troops followed across Bangladesh surrendering to the nearest Indian Army post. The reason for surrender to the Indian Army was to ensure the safety and security of the Pakistan forces. Also, Pakistan had to surrender to a legal military force, not irregular troops comprising Mukti Jodhas. Members of the Mukti Jodha were also present in Dacca when the surrender ceremony took place and wanted to hang Niazi and his soldiers, which was prevented because they were being provided protection by the Indian Army.

Another reality missed by Garga is that Niazi agreed to surrender on the ground that he and his forces are ensured protection by Indian forces. Hence, they were immediately moved to prisoner war camps in India. The wording of the surrender document mentioning joint forces had a political reason. India wanted to prove to the world that it was acting in support of the Mukti Jodhas and was not the aggressor. Jacob mentions in his interviews that independent Mukti Jodha operations ceased on November 30, 1971, while the war commenced on December 3.

There is no doubt that Mukti Jodhas played an important role in the war. They were locals with immense knowledge of the terrain and hence could guide advancing Indian forces and also provide other crucial and relevant information. All major assaults were launched by the Indian Army. Ambushes and covert operations to destroy communication centres were the responsibility of the Mukti Jodhas, thus clearly joint operations, under the command of Indian forces.

Garga also has no knowledge of how military operations were conducted during the 1971 War nor has he bothered to understand the basics of warfare. All forces operating in a war, fight under one commander and not independently. The commander responsible for operations in one sector sub-allocates resources to subordinate commanders for carrying out targeted missions. Thus, Mukti Jodha units were functioning under the command of subordinate formations that fell directly under the Eastern Command.

Driven by his possible dislike for the Indian Army, Garga went on to say that Indian forces alone never defeated the Pakistan Army but jointly with the Mukti Jodhas. The Mukti Jodhas fought under the command of the Indian Army, not as an independent force, hence it was the Indian armed forces, of which the Mukti Jodhas was a part, which won the war. The Mukti Jodhas were only involved on the eastern front, whereas the Indian armed forces fought on both fronts.

Bangladesh is well aware of the facts of the involvement of the Indian Army, and does not require Garga's "Hindu vs Muslim" narrative on the war.

Mukti Jodha soldiers only saw the Indian intervention as support from a neighbouring country to save them from the genocide being carried out by Pakistan. They never viewed it from a religious angle.

Soldiers respect fellow soldiers, without taking into account their religion, when they fight alongside. Therefore, Vijay Diwas is an occasion to celebrate victory, obtained through immense sacrifices made by the Indian Army and members of Mukti Jodha fighting a common enemy. Veterans on both sides meet warmly and bond as soldiers, which armchair critics would never be able to understand.

Bangladesh was never meant to join the Indian union, as Garga wrongly says, it was envisaged to be an independent nation. Hence even the surrender document mentioned the word Bangladesh. For India, it will no longer be Pakistan and an additional frontier for the Army to guard. This can be understood from the fact that the responsibility of securing the border with Bangladesh is with the Border Security Force and not the army, as was the case before 1971.

The Indian Army suffered over 1,400 casualties and more than 4,000 of its soldiers were left wounded, which would not have been possible had it not fought actively. It is easy to criticise when you know there would be no rebuttal. Views change when you wear a uniform and face bullets. Garga's views would also change if he steps down from his pedestal and meets wounded veterans and war widows, who are victims of the 1971 war.

Garga must know, the Indian Army never lies to its people. It always shares the truth as it has nothing to hide. Only those who bear a grudge against it find faults where none exist.

 

[Photon]

Seems you have the habit of washing the soap before hands, had you bothered watching the video @ post#14, you wouldn't be proving so dense, as a field marshal, he was giving daily updates to the then PM Indra Gandhi.


Being a victim of your own propaganda mechanism, one can just laugh at your retarded remarks,
Do you really see only 54 Indian POW in just one camp where they are being addressed by Bhutto.
Let me give you a history lesson,
There were over 50 IAF pilots as POW alone.

View attachment 443734



The Indian farmers will be thrilled to hear about your coffers being full.

I asked you for links to your information, where as you giving me heavily edited youtube video made by some Pakistani fanboi.

Provide a link for total number of Indian POWs in 1971 war.

And then divide that number from total No. of Pakistani POWs and tell us what the ratio stands.

 

[Tom M]

These last 4 decades Pakistan is busy in wars one after another, nothing to do with India or IOK. That' what I said, until Pakistan wants.

I guess until eternity.

Chor Machaye shor...

It was you who dragged in economy and doing Tarzan over it.

No dear. With your jaundiced eye, you will only see me but it was rather your friend who dragged the economy thing earlier, I was just replying to that. See below.

Lol, look at this clown post, this bharti will "liberate" GB, first try saving a dozen out of control territories then talk about Pakistan. You will be made to keep on draining resources in IOK until Pakistan wants, then it will be liberated.

 

[Corona]

That is another name for weakness. It's semantics. Don't use weakness as a excuse to convert it into charity. It was the same Hindu weakness that saw the greatest pool of humanity being ruled for a thousand years by invaders from the West. I think you already know about your numbers. Even if you all spat you would have drowned any invader.

It was the same tolerance of invaders that you display to Pakistan or you should have squashed a tiny country like Pakistan the way a elephant tramples over a coconut. But that is you guys. Lack of gonads.

And you did not break up Pakistan in 1971. Geography, millions of Banglas created the cracks that you compounded. It was not Pak weakness that we lost. It was simple odds of geography, millions of Banglas, being thousand miles from home and facing 15:1 odds against IA. Even USA would have lost. They got thrashed by Vietcong just around the corner from Bangla.

I suppose peace and value for human life are signs of weakness too. Maybe everyone needs to act like orcs and be on the warpath to satisfy your notions of 'strength'. Or maybe you actually believe that every Pakistani and Indian citizen is sitting at home, sharpening knives and drooling at the prospect of bloodshed. I wonder why we haven't killed each other when we meet on foreign lands when we get the chance. How many Indians have you killed in England, Kaptaan, to maintain that 'strength' you go on about?
Do you even realize what you're advocating? "It was the same tolerance of invaders that you display to Pakistan or you should have squashed a tiny country like Pakistan the way a elephant tramples over a coconut. But that is you guys. Lack of gonads." Are we supposed to chuck nukes at each other till only one stands? That's the only way we can co exist?

You claim to be a secularist like that makes you better. You've simply swiped 'religion' from the pedestal and replaced it with 'race'. You're exactly like those religious bigots in pdf who fight over every minute detail, even against people of the same religion.

You can sit there and type out your war plans all you want. In the end, the average person from the subcontinent only wants to live his life, not go on a grand conquest for blood. If India and Pakistan truly wanted to kill each other, if every Indian and Pakistani wanted to wipe out the other, the subcontinent would've died out decades ago.