Pakistan Army contingent is being sent to KSA on training and advise mission

[Irfan Baloch]

Yep, Iran can send its military and hire mercenaries from our very own country and send them to a Sunni majority country to prop up a Shia regime and it does not bother it that it has a significant Sunni minority and it borders not one but four Sunni majority countries.

But Pakistan should remain neutral because it will alienate our Shia minority and anger our Shia neighbor. Basically because Pakistan is the beacon of righteousness in the world.

in Irani Seestan, Americans are helping the Jandullah against the Shia regime, Indians are already involved in planning attacks on Hazaras to make it look like we sunni Pakistanis are all complicit in shia killing so care is needed at leadership level to watch out for that. as for shias who went to fight wars in syria etc are like TTP and should be treated as such if and when they return.


as a Pakistani, you must care about what is good for Pakistan. we are barely keeping ourselves together while enemy is trying ethnicity, religion and sect as a tool to break us up

do you know RAW actually is involved in Shia killings as well in Balochistan on top of BLA terrorism.
it is only Pakistan that has keep itself safe from religious division where Iraq and Syria fell.

as a well wisher for Pakistan one must weigh its diplomacy and actions of international consequences according to its own interests feelings of others be damned. Egypt also went to Yemen do read up what happened to it.

I support Pakistan and Its interets Btw why are you supporting a country who Gave India a naval port to be used against us? and they were also harboring the like of uzair Baloch and Kulbushan jadav

pakistan always
no KSA, Iran or UAE
then again they are all our friendly countries and we have good ties with them instead of joining one over the other we must be strong and respected enough that they are willing to listen to us and end their mutual enmity and bloodshed that is making all islam haters laugh at us
my point of view is, we must not base our policy on sentiments of Iran or KSA but what is better for us and the people of middle east as a whole
by the way Syrians and Jordanians of the olden times times still admire Pakistan for its support. Palestinians dont because Brig Zia crushed their bid for power and helped the sherifs to power in Jordan.

 

[CriticalThought]

while the other Pakistanis of other sectarian leaning played footballs with the skulls of our soldiers and massacred our children in APS. I dont recall anyone from both sectarian leaning in middle east give a flying F about the plight of Pakistan. but hey.. they are busy slitting each other's throats for centuries so our people and soldiers are very low in their priority list
I am sorry I missed out the bit where you pointed out he international media telling us the truth about middle east but then again I am a little shy and allergic to that international media since it also Pakistan to be the center of all evil in the world. I pray for the peace and harmony in middle east but I dont think any Saudi, Qattari, Irani or whatever is worth more than the lives of our soldiers and as for our Herman Sherafain, they are protected by Allah even before the creation of Pakistan
I am just uneasy with being dragged into Arab Persian bitter rivalry that even Islam couldnt wash off. I know it from personal experience I have lived and visited both Iran , Saudi, Qatar and UAE. there is much to appreciate and respect but there is also a lot to loathe and criticize and one of them is their stubbornness that reminds me of an entity denounced for eternity for its vanity

You are only reducing your stature by twisting my words. I could give detailed rejoinders to everything u say, but there are only two possibilities. The lower probability is that you have comprehension issues, in which case u won't understand. The higher probability is that you are knowingly twisting my words and making misrepresentations. In short, you are not looking for a serious debate.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

You are only reducing your stature by twisting my words. I could give detailed rejoinders to everything u say, but there are only two possibilities. The lower probability is that you have comprehension issues, in which case u won't understand. The higher probability is that you are knowingly twisting my words and making misrepresentations. In short, you are not looking for a serious debate.

never second guess me

do indulge me and elaborate on both possibilities.
its good for the forum

 

[Irfan Baloch]

as you said the sectarian affiliations dictating the narrative, then is it Not happening at the top level ??

you are too dumb and have No idea of the conflicts and striking your head like a bull.
pakistani interest in fighting yemen ? pakistani interest in renting military to saudi ?
interest ???? Joking ????

Listen If sending troops to protect a sunni khilafat. no one can object you.
see the history, and fatwas of shia clerics supporting sunni caliphate against invaders.

your narrative is baseless since houthis in yemen are supported by plenty of sunni tribes and yemeni military.

we toppled shia monarchy in Iran Not for the reason that we start respecting the wahabi monarchy.
why approve our military to become guardian of monarchy and interfere in others wars.
if M.E wars comes back like the afghan one it will be Big Fun since M.E is huge as compared to afghan.
we have no problem, All sides are nuke armed not alone you.

Pakistan doesnt have desire or capacity to play regional role which changes regimes and borders in the middle east. we are ourselves facing Daesh at our door steps.
policy must be Pakistan first and not on religious bases. sadly any middle eastern debates takes sectarian angle and we forget

 

[BHarwana]

Pakistan doesnt have desire or capacity to play regional role which changes regimes and borders in the middle east. we are ourselves facing Daesh at our door steps.
policy must be Pakistan first and not on religious bases. sadly any middle eastern debates takes sectarian angle and we forget

I still cannot understand what is wrong sending trainers to Saudis. Sending trainers there is not going to compromise Pakistan's war on terror and Iran has also been taken in confidence in this matter there was a visit from Irani foreign minister just day before this decision was announced. the second concerned party was Turkey which was also informed and decision was reached after discussion on the matter with Turkish foreign minister. Plus Qataris were also taken into trust before announcing this decision. Pakistan has clearly stated that we are not going to enter the Yemeni war and we will not enter into it. I don't think this matter is sectarian at all.

 

[B@KH]

Pakistan doesnt have desire or capacity to play regional role which changes regimes and borders in the middle east. we are ourselves facing Daesh at our door steps.
policy must be Pakistan first and not on religious bases. sadly any middle eastern debates takes sectarian angle and we forget

well said. we are an Islamic Country and we cannot afford to takes sides in internal wars among muslims. we should insist all sides to stop wars and respect each other sovereignty. Our Kashmir issue is still unresolved. Our people are deprived of basic rights like clean drinking water, health, education etc despite availability and abundance of resources. it is because no one is sincere with this nation and people. Every wrong is committed in the name of religion and national interest. we can only pray to Allah swt to help us in solving our problems.

 

[VCheng]

In continuation of ongoing Pak-KSA bilateral security cooperation, Pakistan Army contingent is being sent to KSA on training and advise mission. These or troops already there will not be employed outside KSA. Pak Army maintains bilateral security cooperation with many other GCC / regional countries.

As I said some time ago, it is inevitable that Pakistan will continue to slowly increase its involvement in the developing imbroglio in the Middle East.

 

[Sharpshooter12]

we toppled shia monarchy in Iran Not for the reason that we start respecting the wahabi monarchy.

Interesting.

in Irani Seestan, Americans are helping the Jandullah against the Shia regime, Indians are already involved in planning attacks on Hazaras to make it look like we sunni Pakistanis are all complicit in shia killing so care is needed at leadership level to watch out for that. as for shias who went to fight wars in syria etc are like TTP and should be treated as such if and when they return.

And there lies the problem. This sitting on the fence approach is disastrous. Pakistan has no clear stand on Syrian crisis for example. So we don't actively go against recruitment of Pakistani nationals for fighting a distant war. At the same time we don't go against terror financial sponsoring that is coming from GCC(if not by the states atleast by the indiviuals) for entities like Ahle-Sunna-Wal Jama aka Sipah e Sahaba aka Lashkar e Jhangvi.

as a Pakistani, you must care about what is good for Pakistan. we are barely keeping ourselves together while enemy is trying ethnicity, religion and sect as a tool to break us up

True, and one of the reason is that our state is always in reactive mode rather than pro-active. Also instead of state institutions taking actions to solve a problem, we rely heavily on proxies. Take the recent Pushtun dharna in Islamabad, this was the first time in my lifetime atleast that I saw such ethnic hate speech from the Pushtuns. And what lead to it? Instead of creating a due process where terrorists and their sympathizers can be brought to justice, state used a proxy in shape of Rao Anwar. People were flown from FATA and southern Punjab to be encountered in Karachi, and this was suppose to happen and should have been foreseen. Instead now we are in a reactive mode.

We let organizations like ASWJ survive and thrive, becuase they provided willing recruits for our proxy wars in Afghanistan and Kashmir. For example Lashkar e Jhangvi Al Almi was not a banned organization in Balochistan till 2016, after years of attrocities against Hazaras. So our state actually abbeted in Shia killings, now when the things got really bad we started reacting.

We kept on training or atleast closed our eyes towards it, of JUD and JEM. We pushed China to use its diplomatic power to save heads of these organizations. Now when we see that it can lead to economic hardships, we are slowly cracking down on them. Again reactive rather than pro-active.

Same is with our middle east strategy. Our middle east strategy is on case by case basis. It has not made a friend out of Iran and has distanced us from the GCC. We are sending contigents in advisory and training missions, we are sending our civilians to serve in Bahraini security forces to prop up a GCC backed monarch, all this will not win us Iranian friendship. So why this fence sitting then.

do you know RAW actually is involved in Shia killings as well in Balochistan on top of BLA terrorism.
it is only Pakistan that has keep itself safe from religious division where Iraq and Syria fell.

Sir there is nothing special about it really. You have to look at the demographic ethnic breakdown of those two countries, especially Iraq to see why there was so much division. That country is divided between Kurd north, Shia east and Sunni West. Now compare it with Pakistan, any place in the country where there is such a clear division between the Sunni and Shia communities there is voilence. Take Kurram agency for example where one community has stronghold in Upper Kurram while the other in Lower. They both target each other on a wholesale level rather than indiviual act of voilence.

But this is not how rest of the Pakistan is. You can't really pin-point an area and call it Sunni exculisve or Shia majority. There is no Sunni or in this case a Shia tri-angle in Pakistan. We live and co-exist side by side, so may be we can see blasts and indiviual acts of voilence against each other but nothing of the Syrian or Iraqi sort.

as a well wisher for Pakistan one must weigh its diplomacy and actions of international consequences according to its own interests feelings of others be damned. Egypt also went to Yemen do read up what happened to it.

And that is my whole point.

 

[B@KH]

Interesting.

And there lies the problem. This sitting on the fence approach is disastrous. Pakistan has no clear stand on Syrian crisis for example. So we don't actively go against recruitment of Pakistani nationals for fighting a distant war. At the same time we don't go against terror financial sponsoring that is coming from GCC(if not by the states atleast by the indiviuals) for entities like Ahle-Sunna-Wal Jama aka Sipah e Sahaba aka Lashkar e Jhangvi.

True, and one of the reason is that our state is always in reactive mode rather than pro-active. Also instead of state institutions taking actions to solve a problem, we rely heavily on proxies. Take the recent Pushtun dharna in Islamabad, this was the first time in my lifetime atleast that I saw such ethnic hate speech from the Pushtuns. And what lead to it? Instead of creating a due process where terrorists and their sympathizers can be brought to justice, state used a proxy in shape of Rao Anwar. People were flown from FATA and southern Punjab to be encountered in Karachi, and this was suppose to happen and should have been foreseen. Instead now we are in a reactive mode.

We let organizations like ASWJ survive and thrive, becuase they provided willing recruits for our proxy wars in Afghanistan and Kashmir. For example Lashkar e Jhangvi Al Almi was not a banned organization in Balochistan till 2016, after years of attrocities against Hazaras. So our state actually abbeted in Shia killings, now when the things got really bad we started reacting.

We kept on training or atleast closed our eyes towards it, of JUD and JEM. We pushed China to use its diplomatic power to save heads of these organizations. Now when we see that it can lead to economic hardships, we are slowly cracking down on them. Again reactive rather than pro-active.
Same is with our middle east strategy. Our middle east strategy is on case by case basis. It has not made a friend out of Iran and has distanced us from the GCC. We are sending contigents in advisory and training missions, we are sending our civilians to serve in Bahraini security forces to prop up a GCC backed monarch, all this will not win us Iranian friendship. So why this fence sitting then.
Sir there is nothing special about it really. You have to look at the demographic ethnic breakdown of those two countries, especially Iraq to see why there was so much division. That country is divided between Kurd north, Shia east and Sunni West. Now compare it with Pakistan, any place in the country where there is such a clear division between the Sunni and Shia communities there is voilence. Take Kurram agency for example where one community has stronghold in Upper Kurram while the other in Lower. They both target each other on a wholesale level rather than indiviual act of voilence.
But this is not how rest of the Pakistan is. You can't really pin-point an area and call it Sunni exculisve or Shia majority. There is no Sunni or in this case a Shia tri-angle in Pakistan. We live and co-exist side by side, so may be we can see blasts and individual acts of voilence against each other but nothing of the Syrian or Iraqi sort.
And that is my whole point.

why fence sitting ? The answer is Revolutionary China which is also a friend of Iran during bad times. Do not worry we will cross the fence in a blink of eye when time comes to strike Islamic Iran with nukes since we are designed to serve monarchs. till then fence sitting. rest i think you haven't understood the equations of syria war.

 

[salarsikander]

Pakistanis have become too secular and selfish to help them in their time of need

How about try acting as Human for Rohingya people, let alone assisting first

 

[ziaulislam]

I still cannot understand what is wrong sending trainers to Saudis. Sending trainers there is not going to compromise Pakistan's war on terror and Iran has also been taken in confidence in this matter there was a visit from Irani foreign minister just day before this decision was announced. the second concerned party was Turkey which was also informed and decision was reached after discussion on the matter with Turkish foreign minister. Plus Qataris were also taken into trust before announcing this decision. Pakistan has clearly stated that we are not going to enter the Yemeni war and we will not enter into it. I don't think this matter is sectarian at all.

as long as pakistani is compensated rightly and has a strong support grantee from Saudis when it comes to power politics of USA(they hold a very strong position in USA), it is right move as long as we dont actual send in troops in yemen

pakistan needs to be least involved yet it needs to have strong allies to protect itself from western and indian pressure that is only possible if we have strong allies, saudis control the whole GULF and one of the centers of economics(not only oil), we cannot be their stooge but we cannot leave that place open for india to move in, otherwise we will only be left with the chinese to support us on diplomatic front

its not easy to have a billion people your enemy on your eastern boarder, a enemy that hates you for your identity and enemy you can never make friends with

 

[BHarwana]

as long as pakistani is compensated rightly and has a strong support grantee from Saudis when it comes to power politics of USA(they hold a very strong position in USA), it is right move as long as we dont actual send in troops in yemen

pakistan needs to be least involved yet it needs to have strong allies to protect itself from western pressure(pushed via india) that is only possible if we have strong allies, saudis control the whole GULF and one of the centers of economics(not only oil), we cannot be their stooge but we cannot leave that place open for india to move in, otherwise we will only be left with the chinese to support on on diplomatic front

Well said.

 

[B@KH]

as long as pakistani is compensated rightly and has a strong support grantee from Saudis when it comes to power politics of USA(they hold a very strong position in USA), it is right move as long as we dont actual send in troops in yemen

pakistan needs to be least involved yet it needs to have strong allies to protect itself from western and indian pressure that is only possible if we have strong allies, saudis control the whole GULF and one of the centers of economics(not only oil), we cannot be their stooge but we cannot leave that place open for india to move in, otherwise we will only be left with the chinese to support us on diplomatic front

its not easy to have a billion people your enemy on your eastern boarder, a enemy that hates you for your identity and enemy you can never make friends with

absurd justifications will never fool the masses. obedience to saudi is nothing new and not out of fear of usa.
why shy in accepting the reality that serving monarchs is the only option and keeping the monarchs wahabi terror gangs like jud, lej, aswj etc etc etc is part of obedience. guardians of monarchy. the whole nations is turned into a labour market and proud of receiving the laborers remittances and fooling people. The only reason is China, due to which we are behaving like a neutral entity otherwise there is no reason to be neutral. all fraud of decades has proven futile. China is aware and will never allow us to become part of the usa allies and yemen is the proof of it. how we can cross the fence and go there when china is all powerful. so we will keep sitting at the fence waiting for the right moment.

 

[B@KH]

The Saudi Mystery https://www.dawn.com/news/1390056/the-saudi-mystery

 

[salarsikander]

absurd justifications will never fool the masses. obedience to saudi is nothing new and not out of fear of usa.
why shy in accepting the reality that serving monarchs is the only option and keeping the monarchs wahabi terror gangs like jud, lej, aswj etc etc etc is part of obedience. guardians of monarchy. the whole nations is turned into a labour market and proud of receiving the laborers remittances and fooling people. The only reason is China, due to which we are behaving like a neutral entity otherwise there is no reason to be neutral. all fraud of decades has proven futile. China is aware and will never allow us to become part of the usa allies and yemen is the proof of it. how we can cross the fence and go there when china is all powerful. so we will keep sitting at the fence waiting for the right moment.

Obedience. Lol

Obviously with propaganda fed education you're unaware of what alliances are. No wonder Iran is so isolated country of earth. Pakistan will comitue to serve its interests as it deems suitable, likewise how Iran backstabs Pakistan by killing our bodyguards, bombing the villages and letting Indian Hindus build chabar. ( so much for Islamic rhetoric)