Pakistan Army - AIR DEFENCE CORPS - Formation, Structure, Weapons

[mingle]

3:40 onwards

You listen to him?Lambi chortay hain YouTubers except @international defence analysis guy kabi Lambi nahi chorta
Any logic for S300s??

 

[TheDarkKnight]

3:40 onwards

S300 and fd2000 at the same time makes no sense!

 

[Raja Porus]

S300 and fd2000 at the same time makes no sense!

You're right.But then people including panzerkiel are saying that both Army and PAF will have diff AD procurements.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

You're right.But then people including panzerkiel are saying that both Army and PAF will have diff AD procurements.

Why cant both procure the same system! One larger order would help with finances , maintenance, supply chain and logistics, training, upgrades, integration - all of this can be shared by both forces rather than repeating all these separately for two systems with similar capabilities from two different countries!
@PanzerKiel
Or is there really a huge difference capabilities and requirements fulfilled by both systems which is not apparent for laymen like me?

 

[PanzerKiel]

You're right.But then people including panzerkiel are saying that both Army and PAF will have diff AD procurements.

I just confirmed regarding FD2000..... Not S300, am not sure about its procurement except whatever Mubasher Luqman has claimed.... But am sure it will clear up in a short while.

 

[mingle]

You're right.But then people including panzerkiel are saying that both Army and PAF will have diff AD procurements.

Why not having one unified system under one command?

I just confirmed regarding FD2000..... Not S300, am not sure about its procurement except whatever Mubasher Luqman has claimed.... But am sure it will clear up in a short while.

So jet from Russia?

 

[PanzerKiel]

Why not having one unified system under one command?

Air space management is a complex thing.... And here we have assets from PAF and army... Multiple aircraft, types etc.... And on top of it we have multiple AD platforms from all the three services..... And then we have different set of requirements for each one of them....

Example.... AD assets giving protection to an armored column.... They'll be switching on their radars and will be searching for targets 24 /7....now whether PAF likes or or not, it's aircraft are forced to avoid the engagement zones of army AD assets, since the army won't like to switch off their platforms...if it does, it puts our armored forces at risk....

This thing has to go beyond the services.... There should be a separate AD command.. Over and and above the three services under which all AD assets should be concentrated... Till the time services are involved, they all have their own different assets for their own requirements.... Therefore the airspace has so be divided between them and coordination gets lot more importance.

 

[Sayfullah]

Perhaps FD2000 is for Army AD while S300( if we for for it) will be for PAF's AD

Wouldn’t it be cheaper and make more sense to get s-400 then?

 

[PanzerKiel]

Wouldn’t it be cheaper and make more sense to get s-400 then?

If the only hurdle was money, we would have acquired it long ago....

 

[Sayfullah]

If the only hurdle was money, we would have acquired it long ago....

Thought Pakistan wasn’t getting s-400 or other fancy equipment because of money

If the only hurdle was money, we would have acquired it long ago....

If money isn’t a hurdle why doesn’t Pakistan make its own air defence system?
We could get Chinese and turks to help us

 

[Raja Porus]

now whether PAF likes or or not, it's aircraft are forced to avoid the engagement zones of army AD assets,

Due to IFF?

 

[ACE OF HEARTS]

Air space management is a complex thing.... And here we have assets from PAF and army... Multiple aircraft, types etc.... And on top of it we have multiple AD platforms from all the three services..... And then we have different set of requirements for each one of them....

Example.... AD assets giving protection to an armored column.... They'll be switching on their radars and will be searching for targets 24 /7....now whether PAF likes or or not, it's aircraft are forced to avoid the engagement zones of army AD assets, since the army won't like to switch off their platforms...if it does, it puts our armored forces at risk....

This thing has to go beyond the services.... There should be a separate AD command.. Over and and above the three services under which all AD assets should be concentrated... Till the time services are involved, they all have their own different assets for their own requirements.... Therefore the airspace has so be divided between them and coordination gets lot more importance.

Pakistan Space Force?

United States Space Force - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[CriticalThought]

Air space management is a complex thing.... And here we have assets from PAF and army... Multiple aircraft, types etc.... And on top of it we have multiple AD platforms from all the three services..... And then we have different set of requirements for each one of them....

Example.... AD assets giving protection to an armored column.... They'll be switching on their radars and will be searching for targets 24 /7....now whether PAF likes or or not, it's aircraft are forced to avoid the engagement zones of army AD assets, since the army won't like to switch off their platforms...if it does, it puts our armored forces at risk....

This thing has to go beyond the services.... There should be a separate AD command.. Over and and above the three services under which all AD assets should be concentrated... Till the time services are involved, they all have their own different assets for their own requirements.... Therefore the airspace has so be divided between them and coordination gets lot more importance.

I am surprised this is becoming a factor. As soon as army realizes that PAF aircraft are for their own safety, they need to factor in the changes needed to accommodate them. Worse, it shows lack of understanding of how air defence works.

A radar that is switched on 24/7 is a price target for anti-radiation missiles, or even PGMs, because it is also transmitting its location. Moreover, with modern satellite and UAV based solutions, your radars will be passively identified in the IR spectrum. If modern conflicts are any indication, the enemy will target the radars of your armored columns first with PGMs and drones. There are many ways to solve this problem which would require a separate thread. Or, if you prefer to start a Direct Message, I can fill you in on the details there.

In a modern war, you need redundancy, and you need eyes in the skies. Which, for the army, means a drone that acts as an AEWACs. Referring to my past posts on how I want Pakistani generals to create new requirements, a general who understands air defence would raise the requirement of a UAV based AEWACs that can be used by the army, and which is networked with PAF air defence.

I can share further thoughts in a dedicated thread, or in a DM. Let me know.

 

[Raja Porus]

I am surprised this is becoming a factor. As soon as army realizes that PAF aircraft are for their own safety, they need to factor in the changes needed to accommodate them. Worse, it shows lack of understanding of how air defence works.

A radar that is switched on 24/7 is a price target for anti-radiation missiles, or even PGMs, because it is also transmitting its location. Moreover, with modern satellite and UAV based solutions, your radars will be passively identified in the IR spectrum. If modern conflicts are any indication, the enemy will target the radars of your armored columns first with PGMs and drones. There are many ways to solve this problem which would require a separate thread. Or, if you prefer to start a Direct Message, I can fill you in on the details there.

In a modern war, you need redundancy, and you need eyes in the skies. Which, for the army, means a drone that acts as an AEWACs. Referring to my past posts on how I want Pakistani generals to create new requirements, a general who understands air defence would raise the requirement of a UAV based AEWACs that can be used by the army, and which is networked with PAF air defence.

I can share further thoughts in a dedicated thread, or in a DM. Let me know.

Please do start a New thread.

 

[Raja Porus]

Indian Rudram-1 anti-radiation missile has a range of 100-200kms. This means that Small and medium range radars are useless. That is where layered AD comes in. The long range SAMs would supplement the small range systems by engaging the delivery aircraft before they are able to launch the missiles. Similarly our AEWACS and airforce will also be used to engage the Indian package.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons we saw LY-80 with our armoured assets in a recent exercise.