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Pakistan and Israel

As per the bigger picture, arabs and Israel are both at fault.

Do you diagree?

assalam alaikum

No only the israelies r at fault.

Before the independence of pakistan, many hindus and sikhs were living out side of the subcontinent ( south africa , australia or caribean etc etc suppose ). Now if they got power and with international backing come in and claim part of jehlem lahore gujranwala, lankana saheb and throw our families from their homes. Would that be acceptable?

TARIQ
 
Why Pakistan did not cut diplomatic relationships with Russia, when it was leveling Chechnya then?

Pakistan's relation with Russia cannot be compared to Pakistan-Israel relation....Unlike Israel which a tiny puny country far far away...Russia is right next doors,and too big to be ignored by Pakistan.

For your info,in Pakistan on public level there were many protests against miss treatment of Chechnya by Russia.
 
assalam alaikum

No only the israelies r at fault.

Before the independence of pakistan, many hindus and sikhs were living out side of the subcontinent ( south africa , australia or caribean etc etc suppose ). Now if they got power and with international backing come in and claim part of jehlem lahore gujranwala, lankana saheb and throw our families from their homes. Would that be acceptable?

TARIQ

If they come and beat Pakistan comprehensively in two or three wars like the Israelis did to the Arabs ,Yes then that will be acceptable ---- Cause Might is always Right.
 
Ever heard about Kingdom of Israel? More information is here.

Jews have been living in what we call palestine for many centuries. They are legitimate inhabitants of that territory.

If you look up your ancestry..you may find that your ancestors used to live elsewhere centuries ago...Does that mean you have the right to go and claim that country?
 
Now if they got power and with international backing come in and claim part of jehlem lahore gujranwala, lankana saheb and throw our families from their homes. Would that be acceptable?


I think your problem may be that you imagine that those who argue for the establishment of diplomatic relations somehow accept the polices of Israel in the occupied territories - that's not the case, I don't think any sane person can make that case.

After all, you do not like the US policy of drone attacks in the FATA, isn't that so? are you advocating that we withdraw diplomatic recognition from the US?? You do not support Russian policy in Chechnya, right? Are you advocating that we not have diplomatic relations with Russia? And really, you don't support our brother ally China when it acts to control insurrectionists in Zinxhiang, are you, and if not, why not, advocating ending diplomatic relations with China??

See, Tariq, we are not signaling any kind of support of Israeli policy, we are suggesting that Pakistan acknowledge reality, (Israel does exist) and Pakistan act to help both Palestinian and Israelis and that in this way allow Israel to moderate her policies by realizing that it has much to lose by following inhumane policies.
 
If they come and beat Pakistan comprehensively in two or three wars like the Israelis did to the Arabs ,Yes then that will be acceptable ---- Cause Might is always Right.

Hello Karthic

Nice to hear from u. Exactly it is the law of jungle which is imposed on the palestinians. When state of israel came to existence the palestinian land was occupied by the british along with their partners they made the resolution of israel and kicked millions of palestinians from their land. Who gave them this right? No sane person can equally blaim the paletinians and israelies

Regards

TARIQ
 
assalam alaikum

No only the israelies r at fault.

Before the independence of pakistan, many hindus and sikhs were living out side of the subcontinent ( south africa , australia or caribean etc etc suppose ). Now if they got power and with international backing come in and claim part of jehlem lahore gujranwala, lankana saheb and throw our families from their homes. Would that be acceptable?

TARIQ
They cannot do that because these regions are not contested. World accepts these regions as part of Pakistan. However, Kashmir is a contested region by comparison.

When Israeli people won their war for independence in the holy land, arabs should have respected the newly formed jewish state. The thirst for revenge only complicated the situation.

The scenario seems like India trying to take over Pakistan after its independence and not accepting its existence.

Independence which is won or earned, should be respected.
 
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Hello Karthic

Nice to hear from u. Exactly it is the law of jungle which is imposed on the palestinians. When state of israel came to existence the palestinian land was occupied by the british along with their partners they made the resolution of israel and kicked millions of palestinians from their land. Who gave them this right? No sane person can equally blaim the paletinians and israelies

Regards

TARIQ
We need to be more impartial about this issue:

The war commenced upon the termination of the British Mandate of Palestine in mid-May 1948, following a period of civil war in 1947–1948. After the Arab rejection of the 1947 UN General Assembly Resolution 181 that would have created an Arab state and a Jewish state side by side, five Arab states - Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria - attacked Israel, which had declared its independence on the eve of final British withdrawal. The fighting took place mostly on the former territory of the British Mandate and for a short time also in the Sinai Peninsula and southern Lebanon.[12] The war concluded with the 1949 Armistice Agreements.
Quoted from here.

If Israeli state came in to existence with UN mandate, it should have been accepted by all other states.

Here is a more detailed account of the events:

British, Arab, and Jewish reactions to the recommendations were not favorable. Jewish terrorism in Palestine antagonized the British, and by February 1947 Arab-Jewish communications had collapsed. Britain, anxious to rid itself of the problem, set the United Nations in motion, formally requesting on April 2, 1947, that the U.N. General Assembly set up the Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP). This committee recommended that the British mandate over Palestine be ended and that the territory be partitioned into two states. Jewish reaction was mixed -- some wanted control of all of Palestine; others realized that partition spelled hope for their dream of a homeland. The Arabs were not at all agreeable to the UNSCOP plan. In October the Arab League Council directed the governments of its member states to move troops to the Palestine border. Meanwhile, President Truman instructed the State Department to support the U.N. plan, and, reluctantly, it did so. On November 29, 1947, the partition plan was passed in the U.N. General Assembly.

UN Resolution 181, defined the outline of a settlement in Palestine creating both a Jewish and a Palestinian homeland. The 1947 UN Partition divided the area into three entities: a Jewish state, an Arab state, and an international zone around Jerusalem.

At midnight on May 14, 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed the new State of Israel. On that same date the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government as de facto authority of the new Jewish state (de jure recognition was extended on January 31). The U.S. delegates to the U.N. and top ranking State Department officials were angered that Truman released his recognition statement to the press without notifying them first. On May 15, 1948, the Arab states issued their response statement and Arab armies invaded Israel and the first Arab-Israeli war began.
Source: Truman Library: The Recognition of the State of Israel Online Research File

Arabs did not accepted Israeli state as per UN mandate, so wars took place between them. The arabs were defeated in 1948 and also in 1967 and Israel gained more territories in the aftermath (earned by it through its victories in wars).

Now the arabs want Israel to revert back to pre-1967 boundaries. However, Israel refuses.

Therefore, both parties are at fault and not just Israel.
 
See, Tariq, we are not signaling any kind of support of Israeli policy, we are suggesting that Pakistan acknowledge reality, (Israel does exist) and Pakistan act to help both Palestinian and Israelis and that in this way allow Israel to moderate her policies by realizing that it has much to lose by following inhumane policies.

assalam alaikum,

It is unfair to equate these countries with israel. When our eastern neighbor have some good news with one of our friends ( saudia ,china iran etc ) see how they come and post and try to down us and some of does get effected. They always try to isolate us from our friends. Diplomatically it will be a failure for us ( in some pov) and which make us weak against them ( this is wat happened when india u.s relations got well ). we a nation of 170 million feel bad and failed and feel left alone. Now suppose if we all go and make ties with israel aren't we gonna make their (palestinians) position weak?

Muse, see u and ppl alike u i dont doubt ur niyyat (intentions ). I just dont want the palestinians feel left alone or down them if we cant help them.

Nice to hear from u
Regards

TARIQ
 
. I just dont want the palestinians feel left alone or down them if we cant help them.


I take your point, in order to make our voice heard among Palestinians, we must make it heard among the Israeli - inside the Palestinian territories, how many even know where Bakistan is? How many even know what it stands for or how people in a far away country called Pakistan have cared about their fate?

Really, outside the Palestinian homelands, many Palestinians have heard of Pakistan, know or met Pakistanis, but inside? very few indeed - and it's the same with Israelis, they don't know us, they are isolated from us and it works the same for us - all of this must end, in a global community, no one can afford to be isolated.

Go to post number 82 on the thread linked below -- there is much misery, but there is also hope and there are courageous people of conscience on all sides - better that we know each other than remain in isolation.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/81958-turkey-warns-israel-against-attacks-5.html#post1300967
 
assalam alaikum,

Palestinians r among the most literate ppl in arabs. Since the dish antenna culture and due to aljazeera and alarabia channels now arabs no many things about pakistan.

Pakistan is not in the same league of Egypt ( for the arabs ) and turky which is close to the region they could not do anything to the misery of palestinians.

wo konsi jadoo ki chari hay jisay pakistan her kat day ker un ki maddad karay ga.

We r losing our bases and dignity to the americans i wish we use that magic stick to help ourselves 1st.

Regards

TARIQ
 
That's an interesting argument, it's sort of "heads I win and tails you lose" -- you say Pakistan cannot effect the lot of the Palestinians, after all, the Egyptians and our brother Turkiye can not change the Palestinians lot -- so why should Pakistan??

I though you just got saying that you cared about the isolation of the Palestinians and did not want them to lose hope? Will they gain or lose hope if we don't even try?
 
assalam alaikum,

Since we r poor country we can't help them build their destroyed homes and fields and also we cant help some of the factions ( like our neighbor do ) with weapons. We should play more active role on all the international forums and use our weight ( if we have ) to show solidarity with palestinians and do seminars ( international ) live on tv. some sort of these activities i know there r many intelligent ppl in the FO that can come up with good ideas. Rally our friendly countries ( i know they r trying but let's try more).

After all there r some ppl always gives us the example of iran that is helping the palestinian cause. Iran is helping them without having relations with israel. I dont think we pakistanies r short of an ideas that we can't come up to help the palestinians without having diplomatic relations.

TARIQ
 
Since we r poor country we can't help them

Well, then apparently we don't care as much as you had contended we care about the isolation of the Palestinian

Iran is helping them without having relations with israel.

Iran is offering political support to one faction over another, further weakening the negotiating hand of the Palestinian authority - but may be we can do the same and have different factions of Palestinians -- Iran is not poor, how many homes has Iran rebuilt? How many factories and investment has Iran made in Palestinian territories?

These are not strong arguments, actually they are less than weak, they are feeble.
 

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