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Pakistan: Alliance Over if US Troops Expand War Across Border

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by Jason Ditz, December 21, 2010
Pakistani military leaders are warning the United States to keep their troops on the Afghan side of the border, with officials cautioning that the long-standing anti-terror alliance between the two countries would be ended formally if the United States invades.

US military officials are said to be pushing not only for permission to launch raids into Pakistan’s tribal areas, but are hoping to increase the rate so much as to make such raids a “routine” part of the Afghan War.

NATO, for its part, is denying that it has any plans to approve the attacks, but the Times of London reported that US officials believe they are very close to getting the go ahead by the Pakistani government for the raids.

The US has launched a handful of cross-border raids over the past several years, most recently in September when they killed 60 “suspects” just across the border. That raid led Pakistan to close the border to NATO supplies and sparked a major rift in relations. One can only imagine how much damage would be done if such raids become as common as drone strikes.

--Source--

:pakistan:
 
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US warned over Pakistan raids
Zahid Hussain and Catherine Philp
From: The Times December 23, 2010 12:00AM

ISLAMABAD has warned the US their counter-terrorism alliance will be broken if Washington attempts to expand its ground war.

There are fears the war will move across the border from Afghanistan into Pakistani territory.

The warning came yesterday after the US military reportedly pressed for permission to open a second front against militants by using special forces in cross-border raids into Pakistan. One officer said: "We've never been as close as we are now to getting the go-ahead."

US military officials told The New York Times that commanders had drawn up plans to attack Taliban and al-Qa'ida sanctuaries in Pakistan.

They had concluded that Islamabad had no intention of dislodging the militants, who are concentrated in the lawless tribal area of North Waziristan.

The officials said they were pushing for the White House to adopt the plan as a means of allowing a troop drawdown to begin as scheduled next year.

Abdul Basit, the Pakistani Foreign Ministry spokesman, reacted angrily to the suggestion that Islamabad would allow such incursions. "We have drawn a red line and any move to cross it will have a serious consequence," he said.

Major-General Athar Abbas, Pakistan's chief military spokesman, insisted: "There is a clear understanding that the Pakistani and US-led coalition forces will operate on the respective sides of the border."

A senior Afghan official told The Times that the US cross-border plans were real, although he suggested that they were intended more to exert pressure on the Pakistanis than to prepare for an imminent incursion. "It is true but mainly symbolically and a mere warning," the official said.

The New York Times report was denied yesterday by NATO's deputy chief of communications in Afghanistan, US Rear Admiral Gregory Smith, who said there was "absolutely no truth" in it.

He added that NATO and US forces had developed a strong working relationship with the Pakistani military to address shared security issues.

"This co-ordination recognises the sovereignty of Afghanistan and Pakistan to pursue insurgents and terrorists operating in their respective border areas," he said.

Signing off on special forces operations into Pakistan would effectively authorise the opening of a second front in the Afghan war, a high-risk strategy about which the White House remains highly sceptical.

Vice-President Joe Biden has previously advocated stepping up a campaign in Pakistan that could include special forces raids, but did so as an alternative to the current troop surge in Afghanistan rather than as an added extra. White House officials fear the political backlash from expanding the ground war into Pakistan would far outweigh any military or intelligence benefits. Pressure is mounting on the Obama administration over how to ensure the promised troop reduction can begin on schedule next northern summer, with increasing concerns being voiced about Pakistan's failure to tackle the source of the conflict -- the presence of Taliban sanctuaries on its soil.

In recently leaked diplomatic cables from the US embassy in Islamabad, the American ambassador predicted "no amount of money" could force Pakistan to withdraw support for the Afghan Taliban. Military officials, however, told the New York Times that several recent combat operations had been carried out by members of the CIA's covert Afghan militia based in eastern Afghanistan.

The Times
US warned over Pakistan raids | The Australian
 
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US while leaving will try to create as much mess as it can both in Pakistan and Afghanistan. As much damage as it can.

anyway where it will raid? FATA? seems they are going to take casualties if on ground troops
 
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i know general ppl. of pakistan would want to see the end of alliance in such situation, but i doubt abt. pakistan govt.
 
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I think this Alliance is going to die its natural death... different goals will lead to different paths..

USA wants to wrap up WOT regardless of what happen to Pakistan they just want a safe exit....
Pakistan wants the same goal but steady afghanistan afterwards... and without any indian part in future. also Pakistan dont want this war to spread....
 
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assalam alaikum

If u.s could not contain them in afghanistan and they came to fata now if they raid they will spread in all over pakistan can the u.s invade the whole pakistan the causuality and losses will dbl.

Get some political solution to end this stupid war.

TARIQ
 
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i know general ppl. of pakistan would want to see the end of alliance in such situation, but i doubt abt. pakistan govt.

We all are against terrorism but we are also against US double standards and its betrayal leaving Pakistan in the lurch like 80s
 
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As I said in some other thread all the clowns and I am sure that most of the US military is not included in that category should switch from fox news to real world it will make them feel better. At least we wont have to deal with this wwe type of fake macho I am going to kick ur bud kinda news on daily basis.

Note:
TOI and company are enough for our entertainment, I guess they want us to die loling.
 
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An unlikely scenario at this moment, considering that United States needs Pakistan's ground for supply routes while Pakistan needs American money to keep its present fragile economy intact and moving towards positive growth. I am aware oh much Pakistanis here despise the American alliance and to a certain extent I will admit that they can get quite bossy and callous of their partner countries, but your alliance with them has endured too long and through too many twists and turns to die off so easily.

The threat also does not seem to hold concrete ground threats for American forces not to unofficially disobey your decision. One must remember that there are two paths that Americans use to achieve objectives and they are overt and covert.

Overt part would undermine their already shrinking clout and trust around the world community so they would prefer a more raid and move back approach whereby no pictures, recordings or visible evidence of their activities is available which can possibly be translated as a national rhetoric of anti-American lobby in your country.
 
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Dream On...:D

Btw upon which sane logic you can say that the alliance is faked ... Blv me its not ... :angel:

pakistan had to side with america on WOT, be with us or with the terrorists, that was the message from bush. Musharaf also said that american diplomat told him to bomb pakistan to stone age if they didnt side with americans, paksitan didnt really have much choice.
 
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There are alternates and this does not have to be a zero-sum game for the US and Pakistan (much to the chagrin of Pakistan-bashers).


Pakistan Sees An Alternative Endgame in Afghanistan
By Omar Waraich / Islamabad

For Pakistanis, the phrasing may have been delicate but the message of the Obama Administration's Afghanistan-Pakistan review was clear: Washington is not satisfied with Pakistan's efforts against al-Qaeda militants hiding in the Tribal Areas, or its failure to deny the Afghan insurgency sanctuaries on its side of the border. The five-page summary of the Administration's assessment that was released publicly even included concerns about the stability of nuclear weapons in the region. Nine years after Pakistan became Washington's key frontline ally in its war on terrorism, the two sides have yet to align their priorities — but Pakistan's military leaders may be trying to interest Washington in a workable endgame.

A senior government official speaking on condition of anonymity says President Obama's suggestion that Pakistan's progress has been slow underscores lingering mistrust. "We would have preferred if the U.S. government had spoken of joint failures and problems on the Afghan side of the border as well," says the official. In fact, Pakistan sees the review as having sanitized U.S. failures in Afghanistan, while casting blame on Pakistan. (See photographs of Pakistan beneath the surface.)

The strategy review does acknowledge some progress, pointing out that Pakistan has taken action in six of the seven tribal areas along the border. "That's a very diplomatic way of saying they have failed to go into North Waziristan," says a senior Western diplomat. Sometimes described as the world's most dangerous place, North Waziristan is home to the most lethal militant elements operating not just in Afghanistan, but also in Pakistan. The Haqqani militant network uses it as a launching pad for attacks on U.S. and NATO troops across the border, while an assortment of groups active in Pakistan are either headquartered or sheltered there. And the U.S. has for months been trying to get Pakistan to send troops into the area.

Pakistan has agreed in principle to mount an offensive there, but insists that it will do so at a time of its own choosing. "There is little prospect of an offensive at least before February," says Talat Masood, a retired general and analyst. "Indeed, in the winter, it won't be able to hold the ground at night, they would need two and a half divisions. And they have to consolidate the areas they've already cleared [of Pakistani Taliban] in Swat and South Waziristan. There is a worry that they may lose ground there." And while Washington complains of a porous border, the Pakistanis would like to see U.S. troops do more to fortify its Afghan side. (Read "Is Pakistan Losing Patience in the War on Terror?")

Skepticism of the U.S. review isn't confined to its assessment of Pakistan's progress. "The strategy review boasts about gains made in Afghanistan, but says that they are 'fragile and reversible'," says Mushahid Hussain, a prominent Pakistani politician. "What does that mean? We saw what happened in Marjah and Kandahar. The Americans are looking for a scapegoat in Pakistan for a strategy that has failed in Afghanistan."

On a visit to Washington shortly before the strategy review was released, Pakistani Army Chief General Ashfaq Kayani gave President Obama a 14-page document detailing Pakistan's concerns in the region. "It was the clearest enunciation in writing of Pakistan's core national security interests," says politician Hussain, who has seen the classified document. "It laid out Pakistan's interests in Afghanistan," he adds, "saying that we seek a stable and peaceful Afghanistan — not necessarily a friendly Afghanistan." The suggestion is that Islamabad will settle for less than the restoration of a Taliban-dominated proxy government in Kabul. (Watch TIME's video of the battle for Marjah.)

The document also acknowledges India's regional role and interests, but argues that it should not pursue these at Pakistan's expense. Pakistan, if the logic of the document is pursued, appears to be preparing for a settlement in Afghanistan that would accommodate competing regional interests. Until now, it has angrily denounced what it sees as a Northern Alliance-dominated regime in Kabul under Indian sway, and accused New Delhi of using its consulates in Afghanistan to back armed Baloch separatist groups attacking Pakistan.

General Kayani is said to have repeated familiar arguments for delaying an offensive in North Waziristan, but the unspoken reason for hesitation is the fact that the militant group there that Washington most wants the Pakistanis to tackle is the potent Haqqani network — a longstanding ally of Pakistani intelligence. (Watch TIME's video on the dilemma facing Pakistan's army.)

The Pakistanis also believe Washington is adjusting its own position: Whereas it has previously set the preconditions for talking to the Taliban — renunciation of al-Qaeda, laying down arms, and accepting the Afghan constitution — Pakistan's generals today believe these are now end goals rather than preconditions for talks. Indeed, they believe the endgame has begun, and are encouraged by the reaffirmation of next summer as the starting date for a drawdown of U.S. troops — although they oppose General David Petraeus' emphasis on escalating military action. (Comment on this story.)

Pakistan's security establishment seeks to be the principal interlocutor with militant groups in any deal. "The Pakistani military leadership," says retired general Masood, "would prefer some sort of an understanding with Haqqani, so he can share some power in a post-withdrawal government. But Washington doesn't want to speak to the Haqqanis, deeming them irreconcilables." Yet U.S. officials have told their Pakistani counterparts that Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar isn't interested in talking to the Americans. "Mullah Mohammad Omar is believed to be supremely confident of his chances," says Masood. "If he is willing to talk, it would be to the Pakistanis." And that's where Pakistan senses an opportunity to help the U.S. end the war
Pakistan Sees An Alternative Endgame in Afghanistan -- Printout -- TIME
 
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