Pakistan Air Force Transport

[Armstrong]

Unfortunately after 5 decades with C-130 service; they still think its present numbers with some 'modifications' are enough for them. I won't go in detail, they know this so called 'air-lift capability' is their weakest link. Its not even enough to support PAF, leave the ground forces support aside.

Food for thought: Some years ago a friend of mine wrote a paper on similar topic. At that time PAF had 10 C-130s, whereas IAF had 11 transport units (some 210 aircraft If I am not mistaken? ).

Khan Sahib what if the PAF opened up a Limited Liability Transport Company in that they procure a fleet of transport aircraft, develop a client roster, civilian staff roster, increase the fleet as the business increases & divides the time spent between commercial transportation & military transportation in perhaps a 7:3 ratio. And they use the profits from their commercial activities (7) to finance the military transportation activities (3) in something of a Fauji Foundation concept taken to the next level ?

Or am I getting too ahead of myself & its the finance & business enthusiast in me speaking up !

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Unfortunately after 5 decades with C-130 service; they still think its present numbers with some 'modifications' are enough for them. I won't go in detail, they know this so called 'air-lift capability' is their weakest link. Its not even enough to support PAF, leave the ground forces support aside.


Food for thought: Some years ago a friend of mine wrote a paper on similar topic. At that time PAF had 10 C-130s, whereas IAF had 11 transport units (some 210 aircraft If I am not mistaken? ).

A question Sir: Is the goal to meet our logistics requirements or is the goal parity with India?

Logistics come into play to a greater extent when supply lines are long and the hostilities extend over a period of time, both of which may not apply to our planning.

 

[Najam Khan]

Khan Sahib what if the PAF opened up a Limited Liability Transport Company in that they procure a fleet of transport aircraft, develop a client roster, civilian staff roster, increase the fleet as the business increases & divides the time spent between commercial transportation & military transportation in perhaps a 7:3 ratio. And they use the profits from their commercial activities (7) to finance the military transportation activities (3) in something of a Fauji Foundation concept taken to the next level ?

Or am I getting too ahead of myself & its the finance & business enthusiast in me speaking up !

Some concerns with this logic:

1. You would distribute professional AF pilots into commercial+AF role. Resulting not so good training opportunities for the fresh ones.

2. Too much budget and investment required, where would you get that?

3. With present strength of aircraft and allocated budget this would Impact on AF operations.

A question Sir: Is the goal to meet our logistics requirements or is the goal parity with India?

Obviously that is meeting your requirements, but do you think 16 C-130s or few IL-78s are enough for your 500,000 army?
Subtract 30-40% of this strength which may not always be 'in the best health' to participate.

Regarding your second point:

Logistics come into play to a greater extent when supply lines are long and the hostilities extend over a period of time, both of which may not apply to our planning.

Pick the map of Pakistan and do some maths; see where might be potential landing/drop zones and you'll get your answer.

Land forces take Air support (whether in form of air-lift or close-air-support) very seriously; you have to see faces of army officers when AF jets show poor performance in strafing exercise with army. For AF; its not their primary role but for the latter its their only help from above.

 

[Armstrong]

Some concerns with this logic:

1. You would distribute professional AF pilots into commercial+AF role. Resulting not so good training opportunities for the fresh ones.

2. Too much budget and investment required, where would you get that?

3. With present strength of aircraft and allocated budget this would Impact on AF operations.

Khan Sahib, I was thinking more along these lines :

(1) Get the Ex-PAF pilots along with Civilian pilots for the job ! Keep the Airforce Professional & the Professionals working for LLC completely separate in much the same way the Fauji Foundation works but only better. Let it be an absolutely civilian managed business venture that is simply jump started by the PAF & that the PAF as an equity partner (owner) of the Company instead of getting a profit-share or dividends instead gets transport services from the Company at nominal, subsidized or even zero-cost rates proportional to their share of the profits.

I'm just giving a general idea here.

(2) I'm not asking for this to take off from day 1 but instead it be thought of as a 10-15 year long term investment with gradual growth; perhaps starting it up with as little as $100-200 million in equity !

(3) No sir, keep the PAF aircraft & the Company aircraft completely separate just use the services as & when (a) the capability is built in & (b) we've got the profits to use them ! Which is to say just start with 1-2 Antanovs & perhaps over a 15 year period increase it to a fleet of 15-20 of them ! But of course you utilize the best industry professional out there - All civilians or Ex-PAF !

Think of it as a service provider that you created by employing the best civilian minds out there & the initial capital & you utilize that service intelligently but you don't have to pay for it because you're the owner even if you're not a part of its day-to-day operations. Keep the PAF & the Company staff completely separate.

 

[fatman17]

PK LOC's are short. army needs PAF help in the northern areas and has built its own medium lift capability (helos) for re-supply in difficult terrain. on the plains of punjab and sindh, the army would rely heavily on railways and its own trucks. where PAF's role becomes critical is in time of war, when war material has to be air-lifted from friendly countries (turkey, china etc). are 16 C-130's and 4 IL-78's sufficient for this?...i cant say. comparing to what India has dosnt make sense...their requirements are different and their LOC's longer than ours....so their dependence on air-lift.

 

[aziqbal]

If friendly country's air lift supply's chances are they could also supply the transport, Turkey has a formidable air lift capability and China has no shortage of transports either, they could use unmarked aircraft for these operations

However a Sqaudron of Y-9 aircraft would not go a miss, say 12 units

 

[fatman17]

If friendly country's air lift supply's chances are they could also supply the transport, Turkey has a formidable air lift capability and China has no shortage of transports either, they could use unmarked aircraft for these operations

However a Sqaudron of Y-9 aircraft would not go a miss, say 12 units

you will be surprised to know that TAF has roughly the same number of C-130's as PAF
Y-12 is a light utility a/c

 

[TaimiKhan]

you will be surprised to know that TAF has roughly the same number of C-130's as PAF
Y-12 is a light utility a/c

Sir ji, the guy mentioned Y-9, its something close to C-130. If the aerial platform of ZDK-03 impresses PAF officials in its maintenance / cost analysis, i think we should start thinking to get some Y-9s or Y8-600s in service provided they are as good as C-130s or better.

 

[fatman17]

Sir ji, the guy mentioned Y-9, its something close to C-130. If the aerial platform of ZDK-03 impresses PAF officials in its maintenance / cost analysis, i think we should start thinking to get some Y-9s or Y8-600s in service provided they are as good as C-130s or better.

my bad....my age is showing i guess..

Sir ji, the guy mentioned Y-9, its something close to C-130. If the aerial platform of ZDK-03 impresses PAF officials in its maintenance / cost analysis, i think we should start thinking to get some Y-9s or Y8-600s in service provided they are as good as C-130s or better.

Y-9 tech is either =to or less than C-130H technology. so a few 2-3 Y-9's wont hurt i guess.

 

[Jango]

I love these great images! how do you guys find them? What is your secret?

Thank you and may we see more please.

No secret my friend, just social media, my friends keep these and I just copy!

 

[aziqbal]

you will be surprised to know that TAF has roughly the same number of C-130's as PAF
Y-12 is a light utility a/c

I do not think you are up to date with Turkish air lift,

In addition to C130 they have more than 50 x CN-235, 15 x C160, And a partner in the A400 programme with 10 units on order

In the coming years Turkey will have the ability to air drop a entire Brigade

 

[Liquidmetal]

I do not think you are up to date with Turkish air lift,

In addition to C130 they have more than 50 x CN-235, 15 x C160, And a partner in the A400 programme with 10 units on order

In the coming years Turkey will have the ability to air drop a entire Brigade

Considering the size of the possible war front on either side, PAF should have gone in for the Aussie C130s, with PAC's superb rehaul abilities these C130 would have been a great addition in our airlift ability. Is there a possibility PAF might go for this option?

 

[fatman17]

Considering the size of the possible war front on either side, PAF should have gone in for the Aussie C130s, with PAC's superb rehaul abilities these C130 would have been a great addition in our airlift ability. Is there a possibility PAF might go for this option?

they did 6 in 2001-02

 

[Liquidmetal]

they did 6 in 2001-02

I have heard that Australia is considering retiring their C130Hs, so it would make sense to pick these up cheap and then overhaul them in PAC bringing them back to virtually new!!.

 

[Jango]

The C-130 in jungle camo...what is it's specialty???