Pakistan Air Force needs to replace 190 planes by 2020

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Two camps of thought :
1. Original order was for 6-8 Saab 2000’s but this was reduced to accommodate a new initiative by the leadership of the time to buy the ZDK-03s.
2. Plenty of objections were given to this move - both provided pros and cons but time has not been kind to the evaluation of the ZDK in some aspects while the erieye has has full marks through and through (almost).

As for wrong people, this is beyond the scope of this subject - and many of them are sitting. You want a start on wrong people - read up on the few books written by recognized heroes on the PAF.
There are always perspectives : The infamous Adm Mansoor ul Haq has his fair share of supporters as well. Because for all his misleadings(he just happened to be caught and a scapegoat) he did initiate a few reforms and changes that benefit the PN to this day ... or so Ive heard from multiple quarters @Rashid Mahmood

One issue we have is a lack of accountability in all sectors of the state (not just the armed forces).

Yes, we get one arm sledging the other time to time, but that's not accountability, just a turf fight.

Accountability is a culture that requires transparency, a willingness to answer tough questions, and hard-coded mechanisms for removing wrong actors.

This doesn't exist in Pakistan. Full stop. Yes we can easily blame one institution or the other (e.g., the military stays above external accountability), but that's just a symptom.

The judiciary, political parties, government, bureaucracy, etc are all no different (and in some aspects worse).

This starts with our collective psyche. You need to be willing to put your work on the table and let others (including the idiots) critique it. You should have enough confidence in what you do to easily push off the fools and actually convince others who do get it.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

There was a perfect reason to buy the ZDK's---and it proved right---.

We have diversity---. If we had M2K's alongwith the F16's---we would not have been sanctioned---.

So----in this case---if we are sanctioned by the swedes---we still have operational awacs---maybe not be as good as the Saabs---but still good enough---.

If we had followed up on the order of the J10B's that Musharraf had ordered---we would again not be in a desperate position that we are in now---.

Thank Musharraf for having "some" vision of what was coming---.

Never forget---it is the same air force that told Musharraf---there is no reason to buy the F16's on an urgent basis---because " peace with india is going to be imminent ".

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

How many of them are replaced. Pakistan has deployed many new' jf17s. Are they good enough?

So far:
Block-1A = 50 (1 crashed)
Block-2A = 62 (2 crashed)
Block-2B = 26

They're all rubbish. They stand no chance against the LCA Flying Rickshaw.

As seen on 27th February 2019, when JF-17 Thunder flew towards Indian military bases, the LCA Flying Rickshaws did a VTOL take off from their trucks and scared away the JF-17 Thunders. That was the decisive factor.

So, we've wasted 21 years on the JF-17 Thunder program. I wish our Thunders could also take off from trucks but the foresight wasn't there.

 

[Surya 1]

So far:
Block-1A = 50 (1 crashed)
Block-2A = 62 (2 crashed)
Block-2B = 26

They're all rubbish. They stand no chance against the LCA Flying Rickshaw.

As seen on 27th February 2019, when JF-17 Thunder flew towards Indian military bases, the LCA Flying Rickshaws did a VTOL take off from their trucks and scared away the JF-17 Thunders. That was the decisive factor.

So, we've wasted 21 years on the JF-17 Thunder program. I wish our Thunders could also take off from trucks but the foresight wasn't there.

View attachment 702988

Relax guy. I haven't asked you about LCA. If it gives you orgasm, just enjoy it.

 

[crankthatskunk]

- 100-120 JF-17 Block 3
-70 J-10CE
-36 J-XX/AZM (Fc-31? JF-17block 4 stealth?)

Of these the deals for the JF-17 block 3 production and 50 J-10CEs have already been signed and confirmed. The AZM programs has been in the pipeline for years and a known priority of the PAF.

I open a thread on the purchase of 50 J 10, posing a question, if someone can confirm that deal had been signed. The thread was deleted on the basis of a video, not reliable source.
Apparently, no source at all is a reliable source. Just wondering that's all. @MastanKhan
Or may be not all men are equal. A Pakistani hallmark to treat different people.

 

[MastanKhan]

I open a thread on the purchase of 50 J 10, posing a question, if someone can confirm that deal had been signed. The thread was deleted on the basis of a video, not reliable source.
Apparently, no source at all is a reliable source. Just wondering that's all. @MastanKhan
Or may be not all men are equal. A Pakistani hallmark to treat different people.

Rumors rumors & rumors---.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

I open a thread on the purchase of 50 J 10, posing a question, if someone can confirm that deal had been signed. The thread was deleted on the basis of a video, not reliable source.
Apparently, no source at all is a reliable source. Just wondering that's all. @MastanKhan
Or may be not all men are equal. A Pakistani hallmark to treat different people.

nop

 

[Deino]

Pakistan approaches China to purchase J-10 fighter jets for deployment against Indian Rafales

As tensions rise, Pakistan discusses importing J-10C fighter jets, as India procures one of the most advanced air defense systems from Russia.

www.globalvillagespace.com

Pakistan Could Acquire Semi-Stealth, 4.5 Gen Jets From China To Counter Indian Build-Up Of Rafales

Pakistan is not worried just because of Indian Rafales, MiG-29UPG, Su-30MKI, or the Tejas. India has also inked a deal with the Russians to procure one of the most advanced air defense systems in the world, the S-400 Triumf, for which deliveries would be starting by the next year.

eurasiantimes.com

My sources in the PAF have confirmed the news. Procurement will be on a fast track basis. Wait until the first J-10s arrive next year

Oh well ... you must admit that "Pakistan could acquire" and "Pakistan approaches China" is like "Pakistan discusses importing J-10C fighter" in NO WAY a confirmation of the deal but merely reports about rumours.

 

[KaiserX]

Oh well ... you must admit that "Pakistan could acquire" and "Pakistan approaches China" is like "Pakistan discusses importing J-10C fighter" in NO WAY a confirmation of the deal but merely reports about rumours.

I understand your a moderator but atleast try reading someones post fully for once and comprehend whats being said...

Pakistan is not like India that brags about 4 Rafales months ahead of time. Even people like you sowed confusion and doubt regarding news of the VT-4 tanks purchase, as well as the 8 Yuan class submarines, and 4 Type 054 frigates that was procured. In all instances the Pakistani military prefered not to seek attention and keep procurement secretive until the first batches arrives. Also I stated I have sources in the PAF. Whether you believe it or not is your right and prerogative...but for Gods sake atleast attempt to read and comprehend a post fully before responding... shows the calibre of Mods on this forum since you should be facilitating a discussion....

Your desperation to somehow reply when I clearly showed many sources goes to show the quality of your knowledge which needs to get up to speed regarding the Pakistani military... you are a moderator of PAKISTANI MILITARY FORUM ARENT YA?

 

[Deino]

I understand your a moderator but atleast try reading someones post fully for once and comprehend whats being said...

Pakistan is not like India that brags about 4 Rafales months ahead of time. Even people like you sowed confusion and doubt regarding news of the VT-4 tanks purchase, as well as the 8 Yuan class submarines, and 4 Type 054 frigates that was procured. In all instances the Pakistani military prefered not to seek attention and keep procurement secretive until the first batches arrives. Also I stated I have sources in the PAF. Whether you believe it or not is your right and prerogative...but for Gods sake atleast attempt to read and comprehend a post fully before responding... shows the calibre of Mods on this forum since you should be facilitating a discussion....

Your desperation to somehow reply when I clearly showed many sources goes to show the quality of your knowledge which needs to get up to speed regarding the Pakistani military... you are a moderator of PAKISTANI MILITARY FORUM ARENT YA?

I fully agree with you, but my point - even if eventually annoying to some here - is, that we seem to have rather different perceptions on what a "confirmation" is.

And at least by my understanding several rumours even made by senior members and media outlets with such phrases is NOT a confirmation.

Anyway, we'll see.
Best and take care.

 

[Bouncer]

And we're expected to believe that? Are we morons? So the terrorists are precision bombed by high tech F-16s whilst hiding in a crowd of civilians without causing collateral damage?

These planes are to be used against India. Period!

Maybe the PAF downgraded IAF's Migs to "non-combatant civilian" status in its internal threat definition after recent episodes? Don't know.

 

[crankthatskunk]

I fully agree with you, but my point - even if eventually annoying to some here - is, that we seem to have rather different perceptions on what a "confirmation" is.

And at least by my understanding several rumours by senior members and media outlets with such phrases is NOT a confirmation.

Anyway, we'll see.
Best and take care.

Thank you Deino for confirming "All Men are not equal" on these forums.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Even people like you sowed confusion and doubt regarding news of the VT-4 tanks purchase, as well as the 8 Yuan class submarines, and 4 Type 054 frigates that was procured.

What are you smoking. 4types 054 and 8 submarines procurement was officially signed 4-5 years back. There was NO secrecy maintained hence there was never any doubt. Now tell me where is any such official confirmation of J10s in the past decade ? or even close to be "official". We have been hearing about this jet from Musharaf days yet no induction. So any doubt/question regarding official confirmation fully stands to date. By now posters like you should have been really careful regarding J10 purchase but alas, this hasn't been the case. I think K****f leaks on the other forum has really corrupted people out here with serious misinformation.

As far as VT4 are concerned, they are no big ticket items like a navy frigate/submarine or a fighter plane so people don't care much about such deals. Mind you, a Chinese member here on PDF, confirmed about their purchase 1.5 years back that a deal has been signed by an unknown foreign customer for Vt4 (citing Chinese sources websites) and he was sure that the customer was Pakistan because of their trails in Pakistan back in 2018.

 

[Deino]

Thank you Deino for confirming "All Men are not equal" on these forums.

Sorry if you feel offended and I must admit it was never my intention to downrate anyone not to rise anyone's reputation, but as you surely understand there are quite different qualities of members in a forum ranging for young enthusiasts over simple fan-boys over trolls to true specialists and experts.

As such if you have a claim that let's say, the J-20 is using a domestically built +240kN serial WS-15 from day one (aka January 20211) or that the JF-17 is powered by a secret Italian engine, then such claims have to be weighted differently than let's say a certain claim is made by @Quwa or @LKJ86? Or am I wrong?

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

So far:
Block-1A = 50 (1 crashed)
Block-2A = 62 (2 crashed)
Block-2B = 26

They're all rubbish. They stand no chance against the LCA Flying Rickshaw.

As seen on 27th February 2019, when JF-17 Thunder flew towards Indian military bases, the LCA Flying Rickshaws did a VTOL take off from their trucks and scared away the JF-17 Thunders. That was the decisive factor.

So, we've wasted 21 years on the JF-17 Thunder program. I wish our Thunders could also take off from trucks but the foresight wasn't there.

View attachment 702988

Sometimes İ wonder how much regret the genius who put the Tejas on a truck must have to live with. He must have flashbacks and nightmares